Lostwatch: Oedipus Locke

Fantastic epi, one of the best of the series.

I love Juliet and I do hope she and Jack are working together. Juliet is a complex character and I do think she would go along with any plan Ben had to save her sister and nephew, but I don't think she's a classic bad girl, she's more interesting than that. Plus, I like the idea of Jacket.

The Locke/Sawyer dichotomy was fantastic. Locke can't kill his father in cold blood but he can coldly manipulate someone else to do it and feel no regret when the mission is accomplished. Sawyer refused to kill Ben in cold blood but in a passionate rage he was goaded into strangling OG Sawyer and felt sick about it afterwards.

And we now know Sayid is wise to be suspicious about Naomi.

Excellent Episode!

But I have to say, my love for Locke, heretofore unabated, has been turned on its head. This episode left me feeling sick for Sawyer and sickened by Locke. What an exploitation! Of course, Sawyer made his own decisions. But Locke manipulated his emotions for the sake of a cold blooded murder Locke himself was unwilling to commit.

James, all I can say is...."RAZZLE DAZZLE!!!" Wow, what an episode. In answer to your dental records question, the story was that the plane was found in a deep ocean trench by submersibles and bodies were in the plane. What I took from it was that they were able to confirm the plane down and obviously no survivors, but not that they were able to retrieve anybody ar anything due to the depth involved. In other words, a cover up by some extremely powerful people.

I'm with you on next week. I got a **** eating grin on my face when I saw the previews. I ran the previews back and forth several times one frame at a time. Was the white etheral looking female Juliet? It kind of looked like it, but the image was somewhat blurred in my slo-mo.

I so want Juliet to be a double spy. I like her and the fact that I find her hot kind of adds to my desire to see her stick around. She always comes across as demure, vulnerable and hurt....but she sure kicked Kate's skinny butt. She is always full of surprises.

Great episode!!!

"deepening schism within the Others"

Wow, that was not what I saw, at all. What I saw was the Others completely under Ben's control:
Ben got the entire camp to show up for Ben's dog-and-pony show with Locke and his father, complete with "now we can't be friends" looks when Locke doesn't kill his father (hammering on the acceptance issues Locke has had all his life).
Heck, Ben apparently had the whole camp moved just so Locke doesn't have to deal with the fence when he drags Original Sawyer away.

In the end, Ben got exactly what he wanted: It's not that Ben wanted Locke to kill his father, it's that Ben wanted Locke to manipulate Sawyer into killing his father for him (while making Sawyer blame himself for it), all the while keeping Locke's "hands clean". Which, you know, is the very essence of Ben's modus operandi.

Which makes Ben's pointing out the tape recorder for Locke all the more interesting. The Juliet situation is a triple cross, apparently engineered just to cement Juliet's place in the Others:
Ben tells Juliet to infiltrate the camp.
Juliet tells Jack (and next week, apparently the rest of the camp) of the plan.
Juliet forces herself to go through with the plan anway, as the pregnant women will die unless Juliet can bring them into Othersville and have a chance to work on them.

Which itself leads to an interesting possible chain of events:
Ben needs Juliet to acknowledge Ben as boss, by betraying the Losties, so he has to guarantee one of them is pregnant.
Ben puts Sawyer and Kate on the Season 2 list.
Ben arranges for Michael to get captured to get the people on the list to the Others' camp.

So yes, a major plot point of Season 2 (the list) existed apparently just to have Ben gain dominance over an underling that wasn't introduced until the next season, which we should keep in mind when trying to posit theories on how everything works.

As far as the plane crash goes, it certainly sounds like Dharma had at least semi-accurate body doubles on the plane (Naomi says something along the lines of everyone was accounted for). Is this the end point of the dormant season 2 plot point: everyone has their "twin", the body double on Faux 815?

And if the Others are not Dharma, then they certainly had enough resources to stage a grab in North America (Original Sawyer). If they are not Dharma, then what's their funding?

And I guess we know where some of the deaths are coming from: Rousseau will use the dynamite to take out the fence and Smokey will have his way with the Others. I don't quite know how this will work out, but I suspect Ben will arrange for Karl to get in Rousseau's way (and get killed by her), souring any chance of Alex switching sides, even if Rousseau lives.

Tom, I like the notion of Rousseau blowing up the security perimeter. Question, because I don't recall: Is Rousseau among the people who know that the fence keeps Smokey out? Juliet told it to Kate, right?, but I don't recall if Rousseau would have a way of knowing it.

As for the schism, yeah, "deepening" may not be the right word, but I took it as further evidence that there is an actual divide, not just a con, which Juliet has hinted at earlier. I guess I take this as one of those instances I wrote about last week of the writers having the Others mix in a certain amount of truth with their deceptions. That is, maybe Richard was not on the level as to why he was giving Locke the file, but I tend to believe his disaffection with Ben, if only because that's how we've learned things from the Others before. Like it or not, in a show that is largely populated by con artists, we're always going to have to rely on getting information from unreliable narrators.

Great write-up James on a fantastic episode. A couple thoughts (of course I have a couple, right?):

- I don't think there is any schism whatsoever in the Others. Richard was working with/for Ben, and did the classic Others-style manipulation of Locke. Ben REALLY wants Locke to join them, but for some reason this "sacrifice" was necessary. Once Locke couldn't kill his father himself, it became necessary to manipulate Locke into having the deed done by another wronged "son" of "the OG Sawyer" - in this case, James "Sawyer" Ford. Classic Others manipulation (a la Ben's "I need you to want to save me" manipulation of Jack).

- Sayid is fantastic. And frankly, I'm feeling a little Sayid-style fake-out strategy in Kate squealing to Jack and Juliet regarding the radio and Naomi. Remember, Sayid was the one who wanted to see what Michael would do when he was under control of the Others. Maybe having Kate rat out Naomi and the satellite phone to Jack in front of Juliet is a Sayid means of seeing how they react to the information, and determine where their loyalties are.

- WHAT THE HECK do Jack and Juliet know? I'd love for it to be that they know Charlie is a spy for the Others, but it seems to me it was something to do with the Island. I've read somewhere that we're going to soon learn a mystery that's been around since the pilot. What was the biggest/memorable question in the pilot? Charlie's "Guys, where ARE we?"

- Rousseau - last time we saw her (I believe) was with Sayid, Kate, and Locke when they went to rescue Jack in that ill-fated mission. Now she's collecting dynamite. Might SHE be part of the Tuned-In posited Jack-Juliet plan to stop the Others, gathering dynamite to thwart the Others' plan to kidnap the pregnant women on the beach? What is she seeking to destroy with the TNT?

- As for reversals/irony, how about Locke becoming his father/Sawyer - conning someone else to do the dirty work after all those years of being conned himself (by his father, by the police officer on the commune, etc.)? Suddenly Locke is a morally bankrupt character, and Sawyer (despite committing a murder) is the "innocent" and conflicted "mark."

- Charlie is evil continues to be intriguing - if Charlie is working for the Others, he'd want to flush out Jack and Juliet's true intentions (since Ben doesn't trust Juliet, as we pretty much know). Didn't Charlie want to tell Jack (who he could presume would tell Juliet) about Naomi, to see if Juliet (with her knowledge of the island) might reveal to the Losties how to get off the island (or, alternatively, why they can't)? And isn't it interesting that Charlie went to Sayid after Jack was vetoed, the man who told Charlie he tortured Ben because "they almost killed you" and thus is someone that is not suspicious of Charlie? Any other things in this episode lend credence to this?

Also, the final 3 episodes flashbacks are Ben, and then CHARLIE (the reveal of his treachery all along?), and then Jack....

I meant to mention: I'm guessing (well, hoping) that Jack's flashback will be along the line of Locke's in The Brig, that is, we'll find out what went on during those lost days when he was with the Others.

Err, to be clear: Everything relating to Locke in this episode (including Richard's conversation) was part of Ben's plan to get Locke to manipulate James Sawyer into killing Original Sawyer.

The only thing that is "honest" in the episode is them seeing if Locke will kill his father (with everyone goading him on) at the ruins (you'll notice the Stewardess had her hands in a position to cover the children's eyes if they had guessed wrong about Locke) to verify Locke's goodness.

Now that we are being visually reminded of the ruins, have we now confirmed that Season 4 will focus on the history of the island (which is lengthy even before Dharma arrived)?

And we have no evidence that Rousseau knows why the sonic fence is up. She way take it down just for access to Alex, to provide a distraction, simply because the Others want it in operation, or because she knows it could trigger a Smokey attack.
Or she has figured out what the Whispers are: a mobile sonic defense shield against Smokey when the Others are out in the field and, after seeing the sonic fence, put two and two together and realized its the only thing keeping Smokey out.

One of the enduring mysteries since Season 2 for me is what ever happened to Walt & Michael? Where did they go? What ever became of Walt's "powers"? Last we saw of them in the season 2 finale they were on a boat, motoring off.

Something tells me, that their whereabouts will soon be revealed and that Mike & Walt (mostly Walt) still have a role to play. Just my hunch.

The other thing that jumped out at me last night was Rousseau. She's had screen time in 4 of the last 6 episodes or so, and really hasn't done much, plot-wise to advance her character. But I'm guessing that the writers have big plans for her and I'm thinking the dynamite (which was first revealed in the season 1 finale) will play a major role in the upcoming season 3 finale.

This show really is great....the last 8 eps or so have been tremendous television.

Nice thought, Kevin_ATL....where the heck ARE Walt and Michael? Remember, they "sailed" off at that one particular bearing, supposedly to freedom, and yet Locke blows up the submarine and suddenly there is no way off the island? What's going on?

I had another thought last night - one of the Others in the crowd during the ritual killing of Locke's dad looked alot like Christian Shepherd, Jack (and Claire's) father. Is it possible that just as the island/Others brought Locke's dad to the island, that Christian Shepherd is on the island too? Anyone get a screen shot?

I have a feeling that while many people may be dying soon (4 more this season, according to TV Guide's Michael Ausiello), we might see some characters returning (i.e. Walt and Michael, Jack's supposedly dead father, etc.)...I mean, if the "Others" or Hanso can fake a plane crash with bodies, what is to say they couldn't have made a fake "Christian Shepherd" corpse that lured Jack to Sydney.

In fact, that's an increasingly interesting thought....what if the all powerful Others/Hanso manipulated everyone who was in Australia to be on that plane? I mean, was Sayid REALLY necessary to infiltrate that terrorist group? They needed pregnant women, and Claire was seeking to give up her baby in adoption - why not use the psychic to get her on the plane? Oh, and Ben needs a spinal surgeon...let's kidnap his father, fake his death to get Jack to come claim the body, and then "crash" the plane to get the people we need....

Plus, such a theory is even more wicked....suddenly Charlie's alibi that he's good because he was on the plane doesn't hold water. He was on the plane TO MAKE it go down, or else to make himself look "good" to more easily facilitate the infiltration. Maybe Charlie never really was in the bathroom doing heroin...maybe he was there doing something else...

Locke's "manipulation" of James was not out of cowardice; it was out of respect for James' need for closure. When Locke read the file, he got the full picture, having already known why James went by the name 'Sawyer.'

Now it was clear that Kevin Tighe's character(indirectly) killed James' parents.

Locke could not kill the man because he knew it was James' right to do it.

Sheila,

I think that's giving Locke too much credit. I don't think he "let" Sawyer kill the O.G. Sawyer because it was Sawyer's "right" to do it....I think he manipulated James/Sawyer into doing the deed because Locke NEEDED to have it done because Locke NEEDS to believe he's special and NEEDS to join the Others to be special, and that was the only way to do it.

I've loved Locke for a long time, but I'm not sure I can forgive him this.

I LOVE the idea that Charlie's er, "bathroom break" in mid-flight was much more nefarious than just a chance to shoot up some blow. (i.e. he brought the plane down)

Not sure how that fits in with Desmond's original abdication of his button-pushing as the reason why the plane went down, but it's a cool thought.

And when you think about it...Charlie's back story is probably the least fleshed out of any of the main Losties -- maybe that's by design and in his episode in two week's we'll learn much more about him than just the seemingly irrelevant info about his brother and his rock band.

And while I'm on the subject of lingering mysteries from past season's....I can't remember but was it ever revealed as to WHY Kate was so interested in a Season 1 flashback about the little miniature toy plane? And what was the significance of said plane?

The toy plane was something the boy who got killed when she visited her mom in the hospital had put in their time capsule, I believe. How it got from there/the car when he was shot to the safe deposit box (and how Kate tracked it there) is beyond me....

I'm wondering if there will be an even bigger shocker at season's end... does it seem that Sawyer's arc is over? The little letter he's carried around for years is meaningless now... and doesn't he seem a little too happy with Kate... a little too domestic? Might Cuse & Lindelof really want to shock folks by killing off Sawyer?

Actually, I hope that's not the case... the island is much more interesting with Sawyer there than without. But I can't imagine a finale that doesn't mean the big exit for either Sawyer, Jack (that two-hour finale with his flashback could be the end of him), or Charlie (love Chaddogg's theory).

But this show is rockin' its stride... just as Bauer and Co. are falling on their faces. Circle of life, folks!

Uhh, the Naomi thing may be far simpler than we realize (remember, I think there is an Others/Dharma split):

The Widmore family is part of the Hanso/Dharma/etc. organization. It's already been established that Mikhail wore the Dharma uniform while at his post in the communications station (presumably, because if the Island is now Others controlled, they can't let Dharma proper know about it).
If Naomi is working for Penny, then it may just be that she is an actual Hanso/Dharma/etc. employee, which is why she told her "I am not alone" to Mikhail - he's the verified Dharma contact point on the island (since they don't know he's an Other).
Which could explain why he wanted the phone - he needs to get a status report to Dharma, and fast, before they send in a recon force, discover the Others, and make them all dead. For that matter, is that the reason why the Others had to move camp? Before it gets infiltrated by Dharma's recon force (since the status reports are down). Is Naomi the recon force, and the Desmond search just a cover (though, clearly, Penny doesn't want him dead and the photo was provided as the other guy they shouldn't shoot (Mikhail being the first))?

Which could make season 4 (or even the finale) very interesting, when a Dharma/Hanso/etc. unit comes in and starts killing everyone, and the Others and the Losties have to band together to survive. Live together indeed....

I agree with Chaddog. While Sawyer committed manslaughter, Locke is guilty of first-degree murder.

Yes, OG Sawyer is scum of the earth. But Locke did something morally repugnant. Still love the character, though.

And how convenient was it that Mikhail just happened to be around when Naomi was discovered? And that he just happened to have been a medic? Obviously Naomi's wounds were faked.

Bluelady,

Mikhail came to investigate because Hurley fired a flare. You can't fake a tree branch thru the midsection.

Locke having to kill his father wasn't about murder, it was about freeing himself from what was holding him back. I also believe that Locke called upon Sawyer as a way to offer closure. Remember season 1 Locke? He was all about offering closure to people. Helping Charlie get off drugs, rubbing that paste on Boone's head so he saw Shannon eaten by smokey, etc, etc. Either way, I'm so impressed with the weight they give to murder. They don't show it as an easy thing to do, and show characters feeling real remorse after the deeds have been committed.

What if they're wrapping up Sawyer's past so as to complete his maturation into a leader? Before Jack came back, Sawyer (should we call him James now?) had done a pretty good job of assuming the leadership role. Now that his demons are vanquished, maybe him and Kate can settle in and lead the group after...Jack dies! They've done a good job this season of subverting our expectations of Jack (I know I feel a lot less emotion for him now then, say, at the end of season 2). They could be mentally preparing us for his death.

I had read somewhere that Michael and Walt were supposed to come back late in this season but there was some sort of dispute and Harold Perrineau didn't want to come back. The Lost Podcast also stated that Desmond wasn't originally planned to be a long-term character. Maybe, since they lost Michael and Walt, they supplanted Walt's "power" into Desmond i.e. the future visions? Remember, one of the first times we saw Walt's power manifest was the drawing of the bird that slammed into the window. He also told Locke not to open the hatch in season 1.

I can't wait for next week. Best case scenario will be answers to many of our questions, worst case is a lot more partial info to speculate upon. (I'm not sure what's more satisfying, getting answers or debating over what it all might mean.)