Tell Me You Love Me: Does It Matter If They Did It?

I personally think that the "are they doing it" controvery is HBO's way of avoiding what would otherwise be extremely controversial. From your description, it sound like they are showing not merely penises, but erect penises....

and ordinarily, that simple fact would have people screaming bloody murder. But by creating this "are they or aren't they" mystery, they are skipping over the OTHER issue -- and when HBO finally gets around to saying "they aren't", the whole "penises on HBO" thing will be no big deal.

A hard month avoiding any mention of what happens in the final episode of The Sopranos because I do not have HBO and was a relatively late starter to the greatest show on earth bandwagon. I've seen three seasons on DVD and maybe it is, so why would I want to find out how it ends? Avoiding CNN, any and all newspapers, political ads, Journey news, radio, whatever form of media there is and will ever be, and you spill the beans in the second line of a review on a completely unrelated topic. So, thank you.

At least I'm caught up on my Harry Potter.

Pro tip for Alex -- stay off the intraweb if you're worried about spoilers.

Anyway, maybe this should be highlighted in TIME's "Milestones" feature:

COITUS'D: New HBO drama thrusts TV sex into the public spotlight once again. Journalists and fans are erupting with speculation regarding the controversial scenes, while HBO brass are sticking firmly to ambiguity.

I think it matters b/c, most people agree there are things we won't to do for money; because it's either damaging OR it ultimately violates privacy (doing it for art makes no difference).

Being physically injured is one -- and I think we all know no matter how many times or how hard Bond got his balls beaten in "Casino" it wasn't real. And actual sex is another, which is as physically intimate as you can get. Isn't that why strippers get payed so much? It's undesirable work and no one will do it for $400 per/wk (ok, crack attics will). That's *strippers* NOT *hookers*. And porn stars are prone to take drugs and alcohol to dull the experience.

If it's real I bet these actors are gonna regret this down the pike.

One other thing if it's no big deal, why not just come out and say it.

Ya'll knew I'm meant *addict* NOT *attic* right?

To say that whether or not the performers are engaging in actual sex for our viewing matters only if one or both performers are underage children is to another way of saying just wait, kids, when you're grown up you can have sex in public all you want. Focusing on age just makes things which no person should need into something children specifically look forward to. If it were more honestly pornographic it would be more respectable than this shilly-shallying "no, it's art" mock hurt.

In any case, HBO is clearly groping (pun) for direction in the post-Sopranos world, and is currently in the "even more sex and even more violence" mode (except for "John From Cincinnatti", although that does have the "real child does real drugs on TV!" angle. Yet more of the age-aspirational issue.) Hopefully they will calm down soon. (The real people get really killed angle is pretty much filled up already on the reality entertainment shows known as news.)

Didn't Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman (back when they were married) have real onscreen sex in Eyes Wide Shut? I didn't see the movie but remember hearing some hubbub about it, but nobody really seemed that worked up about it, it was treated as art. Anybody remember?

I canceled HBO from dish network because they insist on showing me what i consider homosexual content, it is no secret that HBO caters exclusively to the gay community. I'm glad it was a three month free period and I did not pay one red cent for HBO, I would not take it back even if they offered it free for a lifetime. Here is a question for everyone, if HBO is so obsessed with the male member and thats what their audience wants then why don't they just become the first gay porn network and stop beating around the bush and acting like thats not what their about.

Bill,

Generally Showtime is known as the "gay network" with shows like The L Word and Queer as Folk. DId you get confused between the two? The Sopranos did not cater to the gay community. The only show that really did was maybe Six Feet Under.

WHEN does this show Premiere?
-MrCeleb

HBO has a obvious fixation with the male member, just watch any of their documentaries and you will see that, heck even oz was very homosexual in nature even though they made it up to look very heterosexual, HBO always goes back to the same thing, let's get a shoot of some guys sex organs, if that is not homosexual in nature then what is? Why does HBO even have to take pictures of nude men, and even women to take it a step farther, are they not confident enough with their art to just get by on talent alone? seriously HBO needs to get back on track, if it's porn you want the internet should be more then enough, TV should be left to real entertainment value and porn should be left to the internet. But thats my opinion, I want quality on my TV not some guy getting a hand job.

People are so hypocritical and homophobic. I don't see why it's such a big deal to see a penis on television when we see female breasts and occasionally pubic regions all the time (I'm talking pay channels, obviously, not network television). I don't feel that depicting sex, or even nudity, in shows is just for shock value or "taking it one step further". Personally, I don't see how it's possible, or realistic, to have a television show about relationships without sexual content as it is a large, real, factor in any of them. That's the beauty of pay channels, they can take us into the bedroom and let us gain a better understanding of the couples and relationships they are in without having the FCC breathing down their necks. And if you don't like it, then you don't have to pay.

Hey Nick, I can see that your into guys and thats fine, all I'm saying is that as a straight man I will not ever pay one red cent to see a penis. As for your comment to the fact we show breasts and pubic region all the time on tv, thats true. however we do not show vulva's all the time on tv, let's not compare apples to oranges okay. if you want penis on tv thats fine just as long as we can have vulva on tv as well. Also I did not insult anyone I just stated my opinion, you should get use to that their will be many people with opinions you do not like, so by saying People are so hypocritical and homophobic all you are doing is insulting me, that's really uncalled for. would it be nice if I said everyone who disagrees with me is heterophobic, no it would not so don't do to me what you would not want done to yourself, okay.

I haven't read any of the above comments but I just got " buzzed" about the content of this upcoming show and I wanna know from you middle class white people - Is this the way you really live? do you really have lives where you never interact with or have substantial relationships with any people who are not white, not heterosexual, not middle class (if they are not your extebded family)? It amazes me that it is 2007, seven years after the new millienium, forty years after MARTIN'S death, almost 40 years after the Stonewall revolt and a new series is premiering about couples, sex and relationship, but WITHOUT any diversity. You all don't have a clue about the rest of us and that is a detriment.

You people should check with siteadvisor.com, time-blog.com is a worthless site run by corporate America in order to promote their propaganda. They are also loading you down with cookies when you visit their site, the cookies are from timeinc.net, time.com, atwola.com. not to mention so few people actually read this trash it don't even show up as having any users.

The new series being discussed hasn't even aired yet. I hope it's a success and that I will like it. There is nothing wrong with depicting nudity in a story about married or otherwise committed people. From what I've read about the upcoming show, the nudity is presented in context and is (I think) likely to be more true-to-life than it's portrayed in productions that are designed to serve as "porn" (sorry, I couldn't think of a better word).

We are all divided into males and females and we all live our lives, nudity and all. Why shouldn't that be shown in a series that gives us a frank look about human relationships (and a series we may even learn some things from)?

The human sexual organs, including the evil 'male member' are not bad. They are part of the human anatomy and I am glad that I know how to see a penis in that light. Men have penises and external gonads contained within the scrotum. What's the problem? (yeah bill, I'm "into guys")

Sincerely,
John David Martin, 46, Fort Worth, Texas

bill,

I'm just reviewing the earlier posts here. I do agree with you that showing nudity, male or female, just for the 'ratings factor' in itself is not a good idea. I say: write a good story and if we see a nekkid person, that's OK. Just write a good story. Many of the paid series I have seen lately are not good and just because we see a body part here and there, male or female, doesn't make up for that.

Respectfully,
John Martin, 46

Hey Bill,

I couldn't agree with you more. I thought I was the only one getting sick of seeing penises. Although HBO is one of the manin avenue for this, they are not alone. From Showtime to MTV to any movies that claims to be daring, the trendy things is to show unnecessary male nudity. Especially the penis. I am not against nudity, not even male nudity, but but there is only some sausage that a normal heterosexual male can take. The least they could do is balance it out with similar female nudity. Yeah Right!! America almost came to a stand still when one boob popped out at the Super Bowl. The unbalance is highlighted if you think of how many main-stream american actor have shown their penis versus how many main-stream american actress that have shown vulva. The most you can get from a main-stream american actress is a boob and maybe a butt. Hell, no even playboy gives you a good look a female genitals anymore. I guess normal heterosexual men interested in 'real' female nudity will just have to stick to hardcore porno.

Bill,

Afraid you might like what you see?

"Bill"--you're an idiot. Film and pay cable are nothing but a parade of female bodies. Does that make them lesbian media?

Showing penises is not gay--50 percent of the population has one. Not being able to look at a penis on-screen (let alone a gay kiss) without flipping out and crying for mommy is a sign of immaturity and god knows what else. You strike me as the kind of guy who watches TV with one hand on the remote and the other down his pants, boiling everything down to how much "bush" or "tits" you can see.

You are incorrect to say it matters only if the children are underage. It also is not acceptable to say the actors agreed to have real sex (as in Short Bus). Here's why: actors need to work. Not want to work. Need to work. It is unfair and oppressive to expect this of them. Both male and female actors. Not just female actors. What about the actors who would not agree to have sex? No job, I guess. So that's why it matters. And as someone who works with actors, I can assure you it does not take much to get them to "agree". This should not be expected of actors.

Bill and Kasey are the epitome of the dumb, unsophisticated American male. Seeing a penis makes you gay? Well since you are constantly beating off (and therefore touching a penis), I guess that makes you pretty damn gay! Women are constantly being shown naked on TV and in movies -it's about time they showed some penis too!

And I love how Kasey wrote "I guess normal heterosexual men interested in 'real' female nudity will just have to stick to hardcore porno."
Damn straight, because you are NEVER gonna see a naked woman in person!

"actors need to work. Not want to work. Need to work"

Everyone needs to work. If, at any time, being an actor is not paying the bills, that person can get a real job - just like the rest of us! You make them sound like starving children in Africa. That's laughable!

Bill, get out of that closet, please....

You idiot!

It's cool that they finally show some male genitals! It's about time..they've been doing this in Europe and South America for years.
But the story line about the infertile couple who've been trying for over a year to concieve? And they never though of testing his sperm count?
That's just plain dumb! Any upper-middle-class couple would do this quickly, I would think. But then you wouldn't have as many sex scenes.
I like the show, and I like the sex! I will continue to watch.
Just think about what real people would do, please, to make the story line more realistic.