Lost Discussion Group: Do They Know Where They're Going To?

I agree with you, Major plot points known from the beginning with a bit of ad-hoc repairing on the way.

And, only because I don't know if you're going to bring this up, WHO'S IN THE COFFIN!?!?! I think it was Ben.

My vote goes for them having an outline and filling in the rest.

I'd say it's definitely planned out from the beginning.

Look, J.K. Rowling had the Harry Potter series "planned" out, but made significant changes along the way, as well as leaving some characters' fate in the epilogue unexplained. That's the freedom a series of books gives you - if you have the major plots worked out and the major characters' stories worked out, the less important characters can be juggled reworked to fit whims.

I think Lost is exactly the same way. I'd be surprised if everything in relation to Jack/Kate/Locke/Sawyer/Charlie has not gone EXACTLY according to the original plan. Characters like Libby, though, can be shuffled around a little bit - she probably played a role in future episodes of Lost, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was always fated to death, or merely fated to play a small supporting role whose importance could be attributed to other characters in terms of moving plot forward. Same thing with Paolo and Nicki (who were killed when the powers that be realized the audience were distracted and hated them, fairly or unfairly.)

Same thing with Michael's reappearance - the writers knew he would reappear and initially wanted him to do so in the season 3 finale, but when that was not possible, they shuffled the cards slightly so his return is delayed (until the first or so episodes of the 4th season).

From the beginning, Cuse and Lindelhof have been adamant that they had a plan for the show that was around 5 or 6 seasons in length (check the Season 1 DVD extras for that tidbit). They may not have mapped it out episode by episode, character by character, but they clearly ALWAYS knew what the ending/big mystery/story was, and how it would play out overall, even if the specific chapter breaks or which character did what wasn't set in stone.

(All I'm hoping right now is that they always planned to introduce the new character Charlotte and ALWAYS wanted her to be played by Kristen Bell....because having Veronica Mars wash up on the island would be like watching a perfect game at Wrigley Field - watching a game at Wrigley is already amazing, but adding a perfect game to the mix makes the amazing game experience, well, perfect.)

Obviously, when you look at Keith's post v. my post, I'm not a master of brevity. But I think we both agree....

I think I fall slightly more to the "they're making it up as they go along" side than you, but only slightly.

I also think the answer to the question would change according to where in the series we are. I don't think they had that much planned out in the beginning (some ideas of where to go, sure, but not a lot), but I'm willing to believe they've planned more details now that they know exactly how many episodes they have left.

I agree with you on the how-they-get-there part, but I think they rely (or, relied, really, before the end date decision) more on inspiration, etc. for the "big" things than knowing exactly what they're heading toward.

However, the fact that they may be making it up as they go along doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show. I feel as if this question is sometimes posed and/or taken, especially by people who don't take the "wimpy" middle position, as everyone in the post has so far , as a dichotomy between "good writing" (of planning everything out from the beginning; intense Lost fans will take this side) and "bad writing" (of completely winging it; intense Lost anti-fans will take this side), and it's just not so.

1) If you can retroactively fit things together in a logical fashion, it won't be any less entertaining than if you did the exact same thing but planned it from the beginning, and 2)as you said, if you don't allow inspiration to come into play, the final product can suffer from it. But still, 3) it's much harder to fit things together retroactively when you've been purely winging it all along. Which is why I both think and hope they've really been taking the middle road.

I'm part of the "save the endangered electron" movement.

@Allison: You make an interesting point, because in literature, "good" and "bad" writing would be defined exactly the opposite. "Good" -- literary -- writers let the characters "speak to them" and don't know in advance where the plot is going to go when they start. They do "make it up as they go along," at least in significant ways. (Though they may have a plan, or, as James Joyce did with Ulysses, a template, where he mapped each chapter on The Odyssey.) Whereas having a completely mapped-out plot (this is the stereotype speaking, mind you) is something that genre writers do--horror and sci-fi writers, etc.

Also, nice work getting italics formatting into your comment. Kinda classes up the joint.

they're definately winging parts of it. how else would you explain the addition of nikki and paulo and then killing them off, only when fans reaction to them was so negative.

@James: re: italics: Oh, yeah, I'm way fancy.

Interesting point about literature vs. TV. The most obvious reason for the difference could be the ability to edit the whole work versus doling out a chapter/episode a little at a time, but I wonder if that accounts for it entirely. It could be differing emphasis on plot or audience anxiety about having been burned by previous serial shows (if one more person complains about the X-Files ending...) or perhaps the genre writing expectation of planning spans media. Hmm. Food for thought.

The idea that they had every plot twist written in from the beginning is ludicrous - cast availability alone will always kill you in a show like this (cough cough Richard). As others have said, the major outline was there from day one, but the details are filled in as time goes on. The Others taking the Island from Dharma, Dharma coming back to the Island via the Losties, the Losties getting back to civilization, and then the Losties going back to the Island - I think that entire arc was there from day one.

Now, there are lots of things that have been written on the fly. Everyone admits that Emerson (Ben) was only supposed to be around for Season 2; another actor would have appeared in Season 3 as the head Other, and let's face it: it makes little sense that the leader of the Others, with an invading force (the Losties) running around, would be busy off on his own solo mission/running that part in the Michael plot. Who knows how we would have seen the pre-Others takeover Island then (well, the plotline would be the same, but our view of the events would be different)? And I rather doubt the show would have been as good without Emerson there in Season 3.

As to Nikki and Paolo: Yes, the whole deal was handled badly. But that too was the showrunners trying to fill one of their longterm goals. They said back in the first season that the background characters were not necessarily red shirts, and that they planned to have an instance where some backgrounders and a main cast member stomp off to the jungle - and the cast member is the one that dies on the trip. My guess is that N & P were introduced to serve as a background character goes good development; the showrunners really should have paid them the cash to show up in the background for a few minutes in a couple Season 2 episodes. I suspect Craig(?), http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Craig , may also bump up to semi-regular at some point, as he's been in nearly as many episodes as some of the regulars.

I suppose we should also mention that Jack was supposed to die in the pilot and Kate would have become the leader, and that they hastily added the Pilot character to die instead. Was that the reason for the early interest Sayid had in Kate? They would have had some Sayid/Sawyer/Kate triangle going? Would anyone have watched the show with that gang of anti-heroes leading?

And Libby living would have been interesting. Would she have roughed up any Others that got caught, or would she have been far too clever for that - if anything, I suspect she would have consistently tried to negotiate peace with them, so her Hanso reveal would have been even more of a shocker.

I heard that there is a Lost production room under heavy lock and key which contains a white board with an overarching glimpse at the entire series from start to finish; a large umbrella of seasons with character development trickling down beneath it. Of course it is probably a complete myth, but fun to think about nonetheless.

I actually don't care whether the show is entirely planned out or created episode by episode, because the questions from week to week (both answered and posed) keep me coming back for more. Such as...

Does the four-toed statue relate to the ancient temple post that Locke's dad was tied to in the Others' campground? Atlantis theory, anyone?

What is the deal with the ageless Richard Alpert? Is he supposed to be one of Peter Pan's Lost Boys? Are the Immortal Others the ones who don't leave tracks in the jungle?

Where the heck did Sheriff Isabel disappear to? After she put Juliet on trial, we never saw her again.

Was it gunpowder or ash that was surrounding Jacob's cabin? Is it related to the Black Smoke Monster?

What the hell did Ben tell Kate when she was first captured, during breakfast on the beach that day (about her 'difficult two weeks')?

Where do Flight Attendant Cindy and the Tail Section Kids live/hide? I still believe that there is an underground city and transportation system beneath that island, where the kidnapped kids are kept safe from the island dangers above. I also think that the infamous Black Smoke Monster is controlled from that location.

And so on.

In a very brief effort to be fair and balanced, I agree with everyone.

Save the electron.

I don't think it's a whiteboard in the Lost production offices; rather, I heard that it was a flowchart drawn in fluorescent paint on a production office blast door. When Damon or Carleton need an idea of where to go next, they sound an alarm which causes the doors to slam shut and the blacklights to come on, revealing what the next plot twist should be. After the script is written, everything returns to normal.

I always felt like Ana Lucia and Libby were killed off because of the drunk driving arrests that both actresses had in Hawaii.

I've blogged about this issue a fair amount myself - I take the producers on their word that they never ask a question that doesn't have an answer, but sometimes those answers shift a bit. Unlike literature, actors have careers & lives (imagine what might happen if Emilie de Raven got pregnant in real life!) and thus you can't plan everything for a 6-year series. And the opportunity to adjust to how something works, whether it leads to a larger role (Ben) or smaller (Paolo/Nikki), should be embraced by fans, not dismissed as the sign of weak creativity. But is there any other show on TV that seems to have a more intricate and definitive master plan? Lost regularly ups the ante & increases its degree of difficulty, even if that means making some annotations on TPTB's white board.

Barnz- Neither of them were killed off for that reason, listen we're talking about hollywood people here (even if they do work in Hawaii) drunk driving gets you fired from a tv show? dont think so. Unless maybe the producers are mormons and i didnt hear about.
Michele Rodrigez (i know i spelled that wrong) was only ever going to be on for the one season and as stated above Libby was killed off to give the whole thing more of an emotional hit.
But really think about it, is a DUI really going to get you fired from a TV show?

I may have picked up the following metaphor from someone else online, or maybe it just popped into my head. Only the shadow knows for sure.

I think that Lost is kind of like a family vacation. You figure out where you're going, about how long you'll be there, and have a basic itinerary for things you'll do once you're there. There's parts that you know you want to do (eat at certain restaurants, visit certain areas of interest, etc) but there's a lot of free time that you'll figure out once you get there.

This means that if one of the big milestones of the trip was originally planned for the afternoon of day 2, but your impromptu para-sailing adventure is way too much fun, you might put off the original idea till day 3. This is what I think the writers of Lost have, a dossier of what they want to accomplish, but with enough space in the margins to improvise and riff a little, letting the organic stories develop as need be.

@Chaddogg
Holy Mars Bars batman, I almost did a little dance when I heard the rumor that K Bell was going to join the Lost cast (this is still a rumor right? I'm not letting myself get too excited till it's confirmed). I LOVE VM and I LOVE Kristen Bell. I loved her appearance on Deadwood, and I think she's perfect for Lost. I have to admit I'd never paired her with the show in my head, but I had hoped she'd get a good, adult, meaty role in her next job so that we could see some more range. The character description sounds like it was made for her, I honestly can't think of another actor that could do it. Plus, she fits the tall, fit, beautiful, mature, self-assured blonde woman theme that Lost seems to focus on (Sarah, Juliet, Nikki).

@Justin D:
I like the metaphor of the vacation itinerary instead of a master plan, although the thought of viewing Lost as a family vacation is a bit freaky - "My family went to craphole island and all I got was this lousy DHARMA t-shirt."

@Jason

Ha ha, I never even thought of it like that. Not the most ideal family vacation destination considering your children will probably be stolen.

Looks like no Kristen Bell

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Ausiello-Report/Updated-Kristen-Bell/800020200