Lost Discussion Group: Final Exam

Old man Poniewozik is out of the room. Quick, lock the door and break out the spitwads!

I predict the numbers will turn out to be Hanso's gym locker combination from high school.

The sad thing is no idea really sounds logical based on what the numbers are, 6 factors leading to the end of man. GPS coordinates? Dates?

I remember the number 108 from a video game series I played, Suikoden. 108 Stars of Destiny was the reference in that game and based on what it says on Wikipedia it could fit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Stars_of_Destiny

It's also possible to get 36 (Stars of Heaven) by combining 23+4+8+16-15

and

72 (Stars of Earth) by combining 42+23+15+8-16

Probably just grasping for straws though, who knows.

It's also mentioned in the Anime Outlaw Star. The only parallel betwee Outlaw Star and Lost that I can figure is finding what you truely desire. Once again, straws.

I suspect that the Numbers will merely provide a source of Easter Eggs until the final season, when we learn what they are and start wondering if Jack's plan to stop the Hanso virus (or whatever) is actually good in the long run...

And I am not so sure that anyone fixed Hurley's lottery numbers. Surely there are easier ways for Hanso to tie off a loose end than to have him win the lottery, and then months later, get him stranded on an island. Like, say, having Agent Libby stage a suicide/overdose in the institution. And it is not like Hanso needs the lottery money (nor is there any indication that they would get Hurley's winnings anyway) - and if Hanso can rig the lottery, why not just use other, safer numbers?

Now, it could be that some group needs Hurley on the island, and plotted to get him on 815. But who? Hanso seems like they have no need for a jovial figure with fast food preparation skills, so who else does that leave? Desmond's background characters of Ms. Hawking and the head monk? But why would they need him there either?

So, at the point, I am leaning to Hurley was not an intentional 815 victim. Instead, he got stuck on the Island as part of his "curse". However, his money will allow him to be the x-factor than Hanso will never expect, and his heroic turn around will come from using his cursed money to do the right thing(?) in stopping Hanso.

Now, if I wanted to hijack the thread, I'd say that I can't seriously take anyone that is using composite cables in this day and age (in the banner ad above). Plugged into (what appear to be) the wrong jacks, no less!

@Tom: Yeah, we kick it old-school here. Although up untiil a year ago, this was essentially my home TV. And the little TV in my home office still has a built-in VCR in it. It's like something they'd have in the AV department of a badly funded public school.

I do not watch Lost, but I like the new banner James!

If you follow the cables in the new Tune In banner they lead to The Looking Glass. I swear.

I'm glad you mentioned the numbers. I was just wondering if they were going to come back around or if they would just sort of be forgotten now that they no longer have to be entered into the computer. Was it ever explained how the guy who heard them being broadcast heard them, i know he was out on at sea on a ship so i guess i'm asking what the source was? And he seemed to think they were bad luck "Oh you shouldn't have done that" was it ever explianed why he thought that?

I have no personal theories about the numbers but i'll check back and let chaddog blow my mind as usual.

I had always wondered why the numbers were being broadcast over and over from the radio tower. It's been theorized by myself and others that this was Dharma's communication with the mainland, but I'd like to see this examined more. It would seem like whomever the numbers broadcast was intended for would be curious when it suddenly switched to Rousseau's message, but apparently not curious enough to warrant investigation for 15 years.

I too wonder what point Hurley has on the island. He's served as comic relief and the moral, kind heart of the show, but I'm not sure he, as a character, has gone through a lot of personal growth. He started to with Libby, but that was cut short. As far as personal demons and tragic flaws go, his pathos seems to be in shorter supply. Also, if you really think about it, he hasn't played a pivotal role in many of the A-missions. Hopefully his stake in all this will be revealed over time.

I raise a glass to all of us, and especially to James, for keeping the LDG going for as long as it has. Here's hoping we can start it back up in late December as a count down/build up for the show's glorious February return.

I wanted to expand on my previous theory.

The 108 Stars of Destiny are at the core of the plot of the Chinese classic Shui Hu Zhuan, commonly translated as Water Margin, Outlaws of the Marsh, or All Men Are Brothers, edited by Shi Nai'an and Luo Guanzhong during the 13th century and 14th century.

Interestingly historians think that Shi Nai'an and Luo Guanzhong are the same person because Shi Nai'an backwards is "it is me again" in Chinese.

I remember in the Season 1 DVD extras that Jorge Garcia originally read for the part of Sawyer and that when J.J. Abrams saw how good Jorge was, he created a character for him to play. The result was the Hurley we know today.

That lends itself to the idea that he is not a part of overarching story and resolution but merely a character thrown in to give the cast balance and bring a light-hearted angle to an otherwise extremely serious show.

Now, I believe, that once he was created, J.J., Damon, and Carlton figured out a way to weave Hurley into the overall mythology of the show. He is the primary vehicle by which we got to know the numbers and I believe he will be the primary vehicle by which the Numbers are defeated. This could possibly mean by using his money to help Jack and Kate return or by doing something heroic on the island in later seasons to prevent the numbers from creating all sorts of havoc by being unleashed on the world.

I still believe Locke will be the final sacrifice that the island demands (there were numerous instances in the 1st season where people threatened his life but said something like "I have a feeling we'll need you alive.") but I wouldn't be surprised if Hurley enables Locke to make the sacrifice sort of like Sam to Frodo in Lord of the Rings.

As to what the numbers are, I think it is some sort of code for whatever Dharma was hoping to unleash on the world. My guess is that we'll figure it out with Hurley as he tries to continually avoid the curse once he arrives home. He will then realize he needs Jack's help to stop it from happening because the result of Dharma unleashing a virus or Cerebus or Kasimir effect versions of people on the world would be devastating.

So, in summary, no I don't think Hurley was originally part of the story but I think the story has evolved to include him because he can make the ride much more fun.

@Drew: The Island already got a hobbit sacrificed to it. Isn't that enough for it?

Not so fast, James....I think Drew is on to something.

I think, in some ways, Hurley IS one of the most important characters, because he's ultimately haunted not by his actions, but by his REACTIONS. For example, he is in the asylum not because he DID anything crazy, but because after a porch he was on collapsed and killed some people (not his fault, according to all the doctors), his REACTION was to have a breakdown and invent an imaginary friend (Dave) out of guilt and remorse for what happened, even though he was blameless.

Similarly, with the lottery - his problem wasn't playing and winning the lottery (action), but how he REACTED to misfortune after winning the lottery (i.e. believing he had a curse placed upon him).

Hurley, therefore, is an example of cause NOT equaling effect. Or, to use the scientific idea, correlation does not equal causation.

Why is this important to Lost? Because much of Lost's mythology is BUILT upon the deeds of characters having far reaching consequences - Jack choosing to save Sarah meant that Shannon's father died, leading her to lose her ballet dream, etc. Locke trusting his father OVER AND OVER AGAIN lead to pain both physical (the kidney, the push out the window) and emotional (losing Helen). Sawyer seeing the murder-suicide of his parents due to a con man lead him to become a con man out of revenge.

Hurley, though, does NOT follow this path, and that's why he's important. His purpose is to murk the waters - life is both a result of our choices (Jack, Locke, Sawyer) AND due to fate or just plain luck, for bad or good (Hurley). We are both predestined in some senses, and have determinism over our lives.

Where does this leave Hurley's character? I think we will see him having a major effect in the final seasons - he offers a middle ground, in many ways, between the blind faith of Locke and the blind reason of Jack, and in that middle ground salvation may lie.

(James - if you need someone to substitute teach the class, just let me know. I'll be around...)

My fear is that the numbers will be for Lost what Rambaldi was for Alias -- a tantalizing plot point that turns out to be a series-long McGuffin, teasing us without ever delivering a worthy payoff.

Coincidence is the archenemy of suspense, and there's more reason to suspect the writers will file the numbers away as the former rather than expand on and explain them in service to the latter.

Unless I'm wrong.