Lost Discussion Group: We Have to Go Back. But Why?

Yes! LDG is BACK!
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@James - Addressing your question, I think it goes back to Locke's idea/theory that the island brought them all there for a reason. There is something "unfinished" about the Oceanic Six's time on the island, and they have to restore the island/Jacob to some type of balance. The only way to do that requires all of them, in some fashion.
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Of course, it also could have something to do with reuniting/bringing closure to relationships. Kate needs to return because she and Sawyer belong together (reaching, I know...I always felt Jack and Kate were better suited to each other), or to bring Aaron back to his mother. Aaron needs to go back to Claire. Jack needs to reunite with his half-sister Claire, or be with Juliet, or finally confront his father/Jacob. Sun and her baby need to reunite with (a presumably alive?) Jin. Locke belongs on the island, or was always destined to be there, so his final resting place needs to be there.
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The problem, though, is with Hurley and Sayid. Why must THEY go back? For Hurley, it could be acknowledging that he is not cursed or something (or figuring out once and for all what the numbers mean), but I've got nothing on Sayid and why he'd need to be back.
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Here's another interesting question -- when the Oceanic Six "all" need to go back (including the body of John Locke), does the "all" include Walt?

@James -- by the way, thanks for bringing LDG back. Although I'm sure it's just to take your mind off of your 'hood, Brooklyn, getting its debut tonight on the Real World.

I'm less sure now than ever before. I will remind you that I think a conscious Island, Island voodoo, and Island-generated ghosts are all bullpuckey, and that we are dealing with the workings of man and man alone.

Part of me insists that the Lost Experience was not a giant red herring, and that a reconstituted Dharma will indeed engage in actions they think are for the greater good with, well, questionable side effects. Hence Jack & Co. need to get back to stop that from happening.

Part of me thinks that the coincidences in the past are, in fact, long-term manipulation of the 815ers by outside players such as The Whisperers and Ms. Hawking's group. Hence they have to go back because, well, those are the game pieces those outsiders chose back then. (As to why it was these people...)

But the biggest part of me just does not know because of the wrinkle of time travel, and the swapping of cause and effect. We simply do not know when the Island ended up, nor how much information "from the future" had affected how things happened in the past. We don't even know when Locke returns to the real world as Bentham either - for all we know, those outsiders picked the 815 crew because Bentham mentioned they had been/will be on the Island.

As far as why "all" of them have to go back - not sure on that count either. Again, it may be that those are the game pieces the outsiders picked, and they know how to manipulate those pieces for best effect. Or it may be the Christian effect - we have no idea what Locke ver. 3 will be like when he gets back to The Island, but Ben (or whomever is feeding him his lines) needs the body back, and there's no reasonable excuse for why his body has to come back but Kate & others can stay on the sidelines.

At least we should have partial answers on some of these soon - I believe episode 5 of the season is titled "The Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham", so we should soon know when he gets/got back and what we need to reconsider from that point on.

@Tom Shaw -- interesting point. I seem to recall Cuse and Lindelhof mentioning that everything had a scientific (albeit perhaps theoretical) explanation. So the island "consciousness" might indeed be a ridiculous theory...but then what is Jacob? Someone "unstuck" in time, in need of the island to "phase" back to its correct time?
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I think the default rule of, I believe, shara says applies: "Never Trust Benjamin Linus." He, of course (and, perhaps, with Locke/Bentham) is the person insisting that they ALL have to go back. Is that just a ruse to keep knowledge of the island limited/concealed? (i.e. if someone who was on the island didn't go back, they'd potentially be able to lead/help Widmore back to it, and Ben wants the island to himself).
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Maybe this all does have to do with time and the island time-shifting. Perhaps Jacob is actually Widmore -- the only person to have ever actually left the island in an "unnatural" (at least to the island) way (i.e. not thru the Dharma sub, not via turning the donkey wheel). When the Oceanic Six (plus Lapidus, Desmond, and, in this theory, Michael and Walt) left the island, they created their own "Jacob" type ghosts, or phase-shifted "shadows" (hence why we saw ghost Walt talking to Locke at the end of Season 3). After they left, the island was literally crawling with ghosts (6 of them), terrifying the remaining islanders and causing them to go mad/attack each other/etc.
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Thus, by going back, the Oceanic Six plus would "close" this phase-shift, and the only ghost on the island would be Jacob, who could inhabit Locke's dead body (since Locke had the "ability" to communicate with Jacob). The island would return to equilibrium (i.e. no time-phase shadows) and THEN everyone could get off the island in some "natural" way -- a mass spinning of the donkey wheel, or in a submarine, or something.

I'm afraid my hypothesis lacks a certain amount of imagination, but what the heck.
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It is all about the machinations of Benjamin Linus. He wants to back to the island, because he identifies it as home, or because he wants to defend it from Widmore, or because he thinks he resurrect the love of his life, or whatever. Ben wants to go back, but he knows that he isn't allowed, so he needs the O6 to pull some sort of rope a dope to trick the island into letting him return.
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Jack and company don't really have to go back, they are just being moved around by Ben some more. Eventually someone shall discover this, and drama shall ensue.

Well behind the two titans of the LDG i don't have a whole lot to add other than to say, "what's up guys?" and take a guess that Sayid's motivation is revenge. Revenge for the death of his true love AND his super annoying island love.
I hope they do include Walt (the time lapse should explain his growth) if only so we can find out what his part in all this is and if it was really him showing himself to various people of the seasons (Wet Walt, "Get up John" Walt etc).
Oh, and as always, what's up with the 4 toed foot?! (we're never going to find out are we?)

@carlos -- ahh, it's nice to be (almost) back, isn't it? Between Lost, BSG (it took awhile for me to get on board/catch up on DVD, but I'm psyched about it returning), and FNL (I don't have Direct TV, so I'm ready for the new season...this, by the way, should be an exception to the "if it aired, you can discuss it" spoiler rule), I couldn't be more excited about spending the winter/spring with Tuned In.
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Anyone want to join me in discussing Season 1 and its clues/tantalizing hints/unresolved questions?

God I've missed the LDG.
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There are 5 lines of thinking on this topic that I like, and they're not all mutually exclusive, so I'm guessing some combination of the following:
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1) Live Together, Die Alone - That was Jack's mantra for so long. I always thought it was one of the most important messages of the show, and assume that it has even more fundamental significance to the story. The O6 are now each fairly isolated, from each other as well as from everyone else, and in returning to their "normal" lives they've lost their sense of common purpose. The folks still on the island have lost their leader (Jack), their protector (sayid), their moral centers (Sun and Hurley), their source of island information (ben), and their inspiration for bravery (Kate). Yeah, I don't really have much of a point with this one, but I think there's a connection there somewhere.
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2) Destiny is a Fickle B1tch - I read some months ago the theory that the varied interconnections that unite all the Losties all stemmed from something in the past that should NOT have happened - some anomaly like what would have happened if Desmond hadn't listened to Ms. Hawking - and The Powers That Be gathered them all together to correct it, either by gathering up the Losties and putting them somewhere where they would live out their existence NOT affecting the official timeline, or where they would have to go through experiences to make them be the people they would have become had said original anomaly not have taken place. Then Jack screwed it up by getting some of them rescued, upsetting the official timeline again and causing all kinds of problems. The Powers That Be must now contrive to get them back to the island.
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3) There's Work To Do: These folks all have strangely interconnected lives, which indicates some intentional force (be it man or the "spirit" of the island or The Powers That Be) brought them together for a reason. I like the theory that the Losties were gathered (by the island, TPTB, etc) because they all carry around a lot of emotional baggage, guilt, daddy issues, etc, and the Island has specifically brought them together to help save and redeem themselves and each other, and that can't happen with some of them gone. Sayid has the guilt of his time as a torturer, Hurley and Jack both blame themselves for things that are not under their control, Sun has the guilt for betraying Jin and causing the pre-island downward spiral of their relationship, Kate has lied and murdered, etc. Even if there is not a specific savior/redemption task, there could still be some common destiny that they are all meant to fulfill (saving or defeating Jacob, for example), where each has a specific part they are meant to play.
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4. The Man Behind the Curtain: OR, Ben Linus is a big ol' liar who just wants to get back to the island himself, and he has to hitch a ride back with folks who ARE allowed back, to either re-consolidate power, prevent Dharma's return, keep Jacob imprisoned, or whatever, and this is all one big power play where Ben will manipulate all the pieces right where he wants.
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5. I really do like the idea Chaddog mentioned about the phasing "ghosts" - folks who died on island, or whose bodies were taken to the island, can be manifested both on-island and off-island. Folks on-island, as well as those who left the island, are haunted (in the loosest sense) by them. It would make total sense (well, OK, this really isn't a show where "total sense" applies) that the folks who left the island could have left something behind to haunt the on-islanders (possibly also indicating that they have left something of themselves on the island that they must return to claim, to become whole people, or whatever), and that the whole phase-shifting loop thing must be closed. I totally dig that whole idea Chaddog just posted. I'm gonna post more on the john locke's body thing in a few minutes, this one is getting overly long.

@Chaddogg re: shara's rule
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I don't know that Ben can *never* be trusted any more. Granted, we've only seen things from the survivors' perspective, so we only see Widmore's people as gun-toting killers, making the enemy (Ben) of the survivors' enemy (Widmore) their friend. But that doesn't seem too plausible to me. Yes, Ben clearly lies in Season 4, but they're not malicious lies -- they're lies to protect himself, Alex & the island. And while it's also clear that he manipulates Sayid in the flash forwards (which as of season 5 are in the "past"... oh boy, this is going to get confusing very quickly), it's not clear that he's lying about it.
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All of this is the lead-in to why I think that Ben, at the very least, has to go back. Because now he is lost OFF the island, just how the survivors were lost ON the island. I have the sneaking suspicion that season 5 (and hopefully 6) will be about Ben's redemption-- for messing with the survivors, for getting Alex killed, for having the DI wiped out. Sure, Ben is still going to do whatever he must in order to come out alive and on top, but I think the default of NEVER trusting Ben stopped being valid with the end of season 4.
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That leaves why the 06, Walt, Desmond & Frank have to go back also. Well, they are still lost.
--Jack, because he still has daddy issues, having turned into him, at least as far as Christian's addictions go.
--Sun, because she and Jin are still separated, only now it's physical instead of emotional (I'm assuming/hoping Jin is still alive).
--Kate, because even though she's spent the last couple years "not running" it wasn't her life that she was "not running" from.
--Sayid, because he still works for someone else, killing.
--Hurley, because he still blames himself for things out of his control. As we saw in Beginning of the End, Hurley blames himself for what happened ("I shouldn't have gone with Locke"). Just like how he blamed himself for that dock breaking, just like how he blamed himself for all the bad things that happened after he won the lotto.
--Aaron has never been a character, just a plot device/prop. But he's separated from his real mother, so I guess that's good enough.
--Walt, because he never really connected with Michael. The Walt/Michael relationship is similar to Sun/Jin, so just read above.
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I'm having trouble thinking of plausible reasons for Desmond & Frank, other than "well, they're in the cast." But 8/10 ain't bad!

@Matt - interesting thoughts re: Ben. It is indeed my belief that Ben cannot be trusted, although after reading your thoughts I will clarify mine:
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"My" rule is to never believe the words that are coming out of Ben's mouth. Not that he would necessarily be lying maliciously every time, but that he is working for his own endgame, with motives and goals that remain unclear and unexplained. His actions and decisions are all in pursuit of that endgame, and he sees other people as chess pieces that he can manipulate for his big picture goals, whatever those are. Therefore, nothing he says can be taken at face value.
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I do think that there is potential for Ben to be eventually revealed as a hero (or, at least, to be revealed as Not a Total Villain) when his endgame becomes known, and that when we see the big picture we can re-construe his actions in a very different light. I'd be very disappointed if he turned out to be unambiguously evil, that would seem like a disservice to his very interesting character.
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So, the Official Shara Says rule of Ben: Never take anything that Ben Linus says at face value because all his words and actions are in pursuit of a yet-to-be-revealed endgame.

Ha! I'm just glad this discussion group is back so I can read the comments. This has got to be the most LOST-astute bunch on the internets. If I were Bad Robot...

It's much, much simpler why they need to go back, they aren't eating their proper amount of fresh fruits. We all know Cuse and Lindelof have been in big Kiwi industry's back pocket for years now.

@shara: ok, makes sense now.
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@chaddogg (post #7): Just going off the top of my head, the main Season 1 mystery that I hope gets addressed this season is the two skeletons in the caves
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these three are more general beyond season 1, but that's where they were introduced so...
-where christian's body physically went (aka, is christian alive, or is "christian" a manifestation?)
-smoke monster (aka, what is it, already?)
-"guys, where are we?" (aka, what makes this island so special/weird??? double aka - "i want some freaking answers!")

@Matt -- all very interesting questions. Adam and Eve are definitely up there on my list (along with the meaning of the black and white rock each were carrying).
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Here are a couple things that came to me recently while re-watching Season 1:
- What are the whispers, and why do characters hear them at certain times (Sayid and Sawyer both had season 1 "whispers" moments)?

- This is kinda silly, but -- why did Jack and Sarah (Julie Bowen) break up? I know it has to do with Jack's "savior" complex, but, seriously -- he made her walk again! And is Jack's need to "fix" broken/hurt people really a relationship killer?

- What is up with Walt? Both in the "makes a bird kill itself" sense, as well as in his decision (knowing that they were about to blow the hatch) that he suddenly wanted to get off the island? Is Walt perhaps the flip side to Miles -- Miles can talk to the "past" via ghosts, while Walt can see the future (and/or control it, partially) with his precognition?

- What is the sickness that Rousseau talked about? We've heard of the illness to pregnant women, but that's not what she was talking about....and her description of what happened sounds like the sickness developed over a longer period of time than what we saw of time-sickness (for lack of a better word) in "The Constant"...so what is the sickness?

@Chaddogg- wow, my memory is slipping. The last time I rewatched season 1 was only September, and I totally forgot about Walt's bird thing. I guess I have my next two weeks filled with DVD goodness...
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or more likely, the Lostpedia summaries.

@Matt -- I also noticed, for maybe the first time, the strange connection characters have with animals. Sawyer and the boar. Kate and the horse. Walt and the bird (and, to a lesser degree later on, Claire and the bird). Surely there are some others I'm forgetting...
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Which brings up another, completely relevant and interesting question: what is up with Vincent? He's around a lot, but he's also gone a lot....so what does Vincent know?

@Chaddog & Matt:
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Some thoughts:
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Christian's body (connection with Locke's body)
There is serious potential for important parallels between Christian's actions and Locke's. I'm going with the theory here that Christian's trip to Australia involved specific intentions (either his directly, or someone or something manipulating him). So much of what Christian did to Jack could be seen as preparing him for his role as leader of the Losties, to shape Jack into the person that crashed onto the island. The whole reason that Jack was on the plane was that he had to go get Christian's body and take it home, and Christian's last hurrah did bring him into contact with multiple Losties on his way to death. Once Christian got to the island, his body disappeared and then continued to re-appear as an apparition. Again, I'm wondering how much of what Christian did was intentional, to what extent he was consciously playing a role, with the endgame being for Jack & co to take his body back to the island. I would not be at all surprised to learn that Christian (and possibly other members of the Parental Old Guard) had been to the island before, and that he was also haunted by visions (driving him to his excesses of drinking, leading him on his path of setting up the pieces to return himself). And I would also not be at all surprised if Locke has done the same thing. I can totally see the “death” of Jeremy Bentham being a final intentional act by Locke (our resident man of faith) with a definite purpose - to reunite the O6, who will take his body back to the island where he will then be, um, reborn like Christian was. However it works, I'd bet money that Locke has a clear endgame at this point.
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Here is a list of possibilities that I've heard mentioned on these topics, let me know if you can expand the list:
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Christian's state of being:
1. Reborn as a spirit with his own free will
2. Reborn as a physical entity who can phase through reality differently than a mortal physical being.
3. A manifestation of the island, to communicate with the mortal inhabitants
4. A manifestation of Jacob, to carry out his will
5. A manifestation of the course correctors, to shift things in particular directions
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Specialness of the island:
1. Strange magnetism that people have been tapping into and harnessing for a LONG time
2. An effect of people tampering with the equilibrium of natural forces on the island
3. It sits at the crossroads of two lines of energy, along the lines of what the faith healer told Rose that she needed.
4. It is a staging ground for the course correctors, who either created or simply rely on the island's ability to unstick things in time.
5. Or, the specialness of the island could be less than it appears, with some group/entity intentionally using advanced technology to make it appear that the island has supernatural forces (Man Behind the Curtain, Sneaky Shaman Stuff) in order to control/manipulate the people there
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Whispers:
1. “course correctors/shapers” like Ms. Hawking
2. manifestation of Jacob
3. “spirit” or manifestation of the island's “consciousness” (whatever that is)
4. a manipulative technological trick, part of some smoke-n-mirrors thing to maintain the illusion that there are supernatural forces at work (aka Sneaky Shaman Stuff)

@shara - your list seems pretty comprehensive to me. the one possibility that i don't like (and would be disappointed were it the correct one) is the "Sneaky Shaman Stuff". It strikes me as too Scooby-Doo-esque. I would be incredibly let down if Lost's mysteries weren't pseudo-science (as they currently seem to be) but was just "old man Jenkins, trying to get his hands on the hidden gold mine." (for chaddogg's sake, he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that dog... Vincent)
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And this "parental old guard" of yours is interesting - reinterpreting Christian's actions as intentional brings a very different spin to the character. Like, not only was he self-sabotoging, but he was *purposely* so.
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Oh, and something that I can't believe we missed today but maybe it was mentioned before: The season's (extremely corny) tagline, "Destiny Calls." That's why they have to go back. That's why (if Shara's right about the parents) they did what they did. "Destiny Calls" also makes me expect a return of Hawking, or at least her people/faction/BFFs.

I'm sure most of you know this, but Sci-fi channel has been showing like a four hour block of Lost episodes on Mondays at I think 7PM. They just got to the last season last week, so I'm guessing you could be caught up or refreshed with the goings on of last season by the beginning of the season premiere.

@Matt - I also hope that the Sneaky Shaman stuff isn't the real answer, it would definitely be a letdown. While there may be a lot of manipulation of forces, I'm convinced that the forces themselves are extremely real. The list just didn't seem complete without mentioning the possibility of extensive smoke-n-mirrors.
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I'm definitely hoping that the next couple of seasons reveal more about the Parental Old Guard. If the show went in that direction (revealing more about the history of the island and how the different families have been connected to it), then it would really flesh out the dialectic element to the story, which I would find highly satisfying. It could tie a lot of past and present events together in a believable (well, as believable as it gets around here) and interesting way. The parental old guard theory came out of a discussion on LDG last season, somewhere near the end of the season. I looked in the archives so I could reference the discussion (because there was at least one other proponent of that idea who I wanted to credit but couldn't remember), but it appears that the comments are no longer available.

@ Matt - to add to you excellent list of why they'd need to go back, I've got one for Frank. I belive he was originally supposed to be the pilot of 815, and therefore should've been the one to crash, and perhaps survive. So we can argue he was destined to be on the island, and then found his way there by other means via the freighter. If we follow this line, then we could also argue that he feels some amount of guilt, perhaps thinking he could've prevented the crash if he had been piloting, and the death of his pilot friend (whose name escapes me, so I'll call him Matt Parkman.....mixing shows, I know) so he needs to return to the island to come to terms with that. Also, I could be wrong about this, but I always kind of assumed the resaon Frank wasn't flying that day was becasue he was drunk or had been drinking. I'm not sure if that was mentioned on the show or if I just inferred it, but it'd sure add a nice smooth coating of guilt to this mini-theory.

@lyrilo: ooooh good thought!

@Chadogg

First on the 'whisper' moments, I've wondered about those too. Now that some sort of time-displacement is pretty much a given, are we in for (for want of a better phrase) some 'Back to the Future' moments with some sort of crossover or re-visit to certain events? I don't know that they'd go this way but those moments have bugged me too...

On the animal relationships, wasn't there a hawk that buzzed a group of the Losties at one point and screamed Hurley's name? (Or HE thought that's what it said) Think this was later, season 2 I want to say.

@ lyrilo - The pilot is "Seth Norris". And what you bring up about Frank, I considered, but I decided that because Frank actively chose to go to the Island because of that guilt... it just didn't seem to fit in with everyone else. Frank is also different from 06/Des/Walt because he sought out the Island, whereas the Island sought out the others (not the capital "O" kind). Still, if that were the case, Frank would serve as a nice study of what happens when the Island has the same intentions as one of the characters, like the "control" of the experiment.
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I may as well share why I had trouble thinking of a reason for Des. He was put on that Island, according to Hawking, to save the world. He did that by turning the key at the end of season 2... so now he has no reason to be there (that we know of). We also know he'll fight tooth-and-nail to never return there, so I expect plenty of Des vs. Ben/Jack arguing & intrigue. Of course, since Ben is hunting down Penny, that's a whole other reason for Ben & Des. to be at each other's throats...

@chad, tenderfeet
don't forget Sawyer, Hurley & the frog!