Lostwatch: 316

Before I go to sleep and have more to say at work tomorrow, I think that Ben's "promise to a friend" was what he told Widmore - that he'd kill Penny - and that he sustained injuries trying to do so. aka Desmond kicked his butt.

wouldnt that army top secret be the jughead h-bomb? since ellie from the islands is likely farradays mother, she certainly would have taken an interest in the bomb project when returning to the real world. i always wondered how the bomb ended up on the island if the island was unmoored in space. was the us targeting the island for their tests or did the bombs pilots or seamen (not sure how the bomb got there) just stumble into one of the windows and get stranded there.

also it seems likely that kate gave aaron to claires mom who was conveniently in los angeles at the time.

I'm guessing Hurley was told to get on the flight by Charlie. Hence, the guitar. Sayid being escorted by what amounts to a foreign version of a US Marshall means Ben probably turned him in for someone he killed during his time working to get the economist. Both were fun nods to the original crash of Oceanic Airlines.
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I wonder if the flash they experienced just means that they suddenly disappeared from the plane a la Stephen King's The Langoliers. I hope they have a good co-pilot.
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I'm extremely interested to find out Caesar's purpose for wanting to get to the island. I'm going to assume he works for Ben because I think Ben would have known if he worked for Widmore.
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Did Ben just innocently go to the bathroom before the flash/crash or did he have different motives? Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben was able to seriously injure Penny or little Charlie before Desmond beat him up. Desmond needs a reason to return to the island and my guess is he'll tell Widmore about the Lamp Post and together they'll return to the island in time for season six.
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I'm guessing the plane did crash. Hence Jin went out into the jungle searching for something. I love the fact that part of the story will take place in Dharma times.They have set up so much Dharma backstory that it will be great to be able to experience the history through the character's eyes.
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When Sawyer, Locke, & company stole the boat it had Ajira Airways bottles on it and it was set in a time after the beach camp had been built. So did the rest of the plane's passengers end up on the island circa 2007? Did the island merely transport the 06 back to Dharma days in order to rescue their friends? Is that why Daniel Faraday is mining with Dharma, he needs to find a way to transport all of them back to the present? I'm thinking season 6 will reunite everyone in present day for the final Ben vs Widmore showdown and payoff as to why this group of people was brought to the island.

A bit of information to everyone -

The comic book Hurley was reading (in a foreign language, of course, a tip to the comic book that Walt used to read) was Y: The Last Man, a series about how male of every species on Earth dies except for one man and his pet monkey. That particular collection that Hurley was reading was about the attempt by two male astronauts to return back to earth.

It's probably more of a nod to one of the LOST writers, Brian K Vaughan, who wrote the series, as opposed to a clue to the LOST story, but hey, who knows?
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And the best line on the show tonight wasn't any of those listed. It was as follows, when Jack couldn't believe Ben was reading on the plane:
Jack: How can you read?
Ben: My mom taught me.

As much as I hope Ben got bloodied trying to get Sayid and Hurley on board. I agree with dwhitcomb's theories about how they got on board. I have a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that Penny is dead, and that's why Desmond will have to return to the Island...to kill Ben.

Also hands down best line in the episode, perhaps best line in a few episodes was "How can you read? My mom taught me."

Ok so I just realized that Ben's hilarious line there is actually pretty loaded. Because, ahem his Mom died in childbirth!? So either it was just an ironic line to use, or, did he really learn to read in the jungle with the Others and his ghost mommy?

(Nice write-up, Mr. Cloud! The only points I'll dock you is not capitalizing the 'I' in 'Island.')
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@sulliclm - I sure hope Ben could read before he was 10
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Though the question is, was his ghost mommy teaching him to read while he was living stateside, or was it just a funny line? After far too much thought, I'm leaning towards it's just a funny line.
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My favorite line of the episode was Ms. Hawking's line after Ben tells Jack he didn't know about the Lamp Post. Jack: "Is he telling the truth?" Hawking: (Chuckling) "Probably not."
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The Lamp Post: simple nod to CS Lewis or more elaborate analogy? (The Lamp Post was made shortly after the creation of Narnia and was the first thing the Pevensies saw as they passed into Narnia for the first times.)
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Lots and lots of details... I look forward to the Lostpedia contributors picking over every detail of the Lamp Post room, along with Ms. Hawking's study.
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It was nice to have an episode where I didn't cringe after half of Jack's dialog, though that was balanced by even more cringing after most (all?) of Kate's lines. I'm trying not to rant about Kate, but give me a break. For the last 3 years, you've been stubbornly holding onto Aaron as your son, and now you show up, asking to go back to the Island without him, and you tell Jack never to ask you about him again? There had better be an absolutely phenomenal reason for this. Because it sure seemed like Kate was running away. Again.
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Ok, there was too much awesome in that episode for me to get hung up on Kate. I agree that Jack's grandfather was very well done. I was half expecting him to start talking about the Island
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Did it seem like Locke had more stubble than in the end of Season 4?

Here are some mysteries to chew on..

- Why does Kate change her mind? Seems Aaron was obviously taken from her..

- Who beat up Ben?

- How did they end up on the island? Seems like they simply entered the island's bubble and time transported.. BUT, if thats the case, why were they not transported when they were on the copter???

- What happened to the plane and the rest of the passengers? Why is the other man (across from Hurley that gave Jack condolences) important??

- How did Hurley get free? Can we presume Sayid confessed? If so, why is he extradited to GUAM????

- Who was the "brilliant man" that built the Pendulum at the Lamp Post????

- What is in Hurley's Guitar case??? Food?

- Which passenger got the Ajira water bottle to the island???

- obviously, where is Ben and Sun and Sayid now?

Also, I LOVE how they faked out the theorists that thought that the Pilot episode was actually showing Jack waking up on the island after returning to the island from the future. They totally screwed with them..hahah.

Also, We can put to rest any theories that involve the "White Tennis Shoes" Hanging from the tree in the Pilot episode.

So I didn't love this episode -- it seemed to me like it was mostly about getting them back to the island but refused to tell us anything about how half of the O6 got on the plane. Lost is at its most infuriating when it is a blatant tease like that -- plus there was a reappearance of the dreaded no-one-asks-or-answers-questions sickness. But, there were a couple of good moments -- like the unexpected return of Lapidus who had the IMO best line: We're not going to Guam, are we? Brilliant delivery! I agree that it seemed like the O6 were caught in a time bubble. My bet is that Sun, Sayid and possibly the other newcomers ended up in the future time with the beach camp and the outriggers etc. Poor Sun and Jin, still separated.

I don't think Kate gave Aaron up - that's too much of a surrender for her ego. I think she decided she wanted to go back to the island, but remembered Claire's warning/threat - "Don't you dare bring him back!" She stashed Aaron somewhere she could easily retrieve him - something to do with the secret favor she did for Sawyer maybe?

Locke definitely has more stubble - I really expected him to open his eyes this time.

Where are Rose and Bernard? I still think they end up as "Adam and Eve," but before that, they'll come rushing in to make a surprise rescue, like Hurley did with the van on the beach.

Am I the only one who thinks Richard Alpert is Locke's father?

Actually, just got a theory on Ceasar. My possibility is Sayid convinced him to come along in an effort to recreate as best as possible the conditions of the original flight. Sayid plays the part of Kate (escorted convict), and Ceasar plays the part of Sayid (Iraqi Torture Specialist)

"I made a promise to an old friend".... to kill his daughter. That Ben, such a charmer!
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What really wows me about this episode is that the show could go back to flashbacks again, and they'd work: Not only do we have the existing O6 mysteries, but the new mysteries of Hurley knowing the plane intercept, Sayid's "capture", Kate dropping Aaron off with Sawyer's kid, Ben's (unsuccessful?) attempt on Penny's life...
and there's the entire DI era three years to catch up on.
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Yes, roughly three years. Remember that, for Sawyer & Co., it was only a couple days since the end of Season 4, but three years for the O6 crew. I'll bet that the Ajira "intersect" (not really a crash) got their two timelines put back together - it's been three years since Locke fixed the wheel, and Sawyer & Co. landed in the DI era.
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So who knows what all happened since then. Well, Jin now speaks perfect English, so Daniel Dae Kim should be happy at least. Juliet & Sawyer could have married DI era people - hell, they could each/together be the parents of various 2004 characters! For that matter, Rose & Bernard could have a kid or two themselves.
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Actually, chew on this: last week I said Charlotte's dad was American and did not die in The Purge. What if it's not Ben, but Sawyer?
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And our consensus is that Hawking's "They will do... for now does indeed suggest that she was behind (nearly) everything in our new mysteries, and that she can get done in 36 hours what Ben/Jack/Locke couldn't in three years (and the power that implies), yes?
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I suspect that we will spend the rest of the season (after Bentham's death next week) in the DI era, until the Wheel is unearthed and our Islanders "snap back" into 2008 - and a motley crew of people waiting for them: The Others, possibly the rest of Ajira 316, Widmore, etc.
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And I have to say, that the plane scene was really well done, in that we had simultaneous similarities and dissimilarities - yes, everyone was sitting apart, Hurley was reading a Spanish-language comic book, a fugitive in chains, and a drug addict, but this time around, they were sitting apart by choice, Hurley was reading a comic by a Lost writer, the drug addict was Jack and the fugitive was Sayid. (I take it mysterious middle eastern guy is the new Libby - the mole working for Widmore?)

Last night's episode was titled 316, right? I think this was a direct reference to John 3:16.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

1. Locke gave his life so that others would live.
2. Tons of Father/Son themes (Locke and his dad, Jack and his dad, etc)
3. Locke's letter to Jack…I wish you would have believed.
4. Ben and Jack's conversation about Thomas and Jesus.

Re: Kate/Aaron... did it not look as though Kate had been crying when she showed up at Jack's place? Actually she seemed to look like she had been crying through most of this episode... my guess is that she eventually got cornered by Ben with regards to the DNA testing and Ben convinced her to give him away.

Also, Kate has "I can't let Jack go by himself" syndrome and has had this since Season 1, so that is another possibility as to why she decides to come..she's worried about Jack/doesn't want to lose him.

okay very first time poster...long time reader! in fact, this blog is how and why i started my addiction to lost!

i can't help but agree with dave that i totally think there was more stubble on Locke!

also, as for ben's bloody phone call. he seemed to be located at a marina hopefully not where desmond, penny and charlie are docked ??

and lastly, doc jensen over at ew.com mention something interesting. way back at the hydra they were building a landing strip! might have come in handy last night.

thanks for getting me hooked guys!!

@natego - Or Kate wants to get back to Sawyer
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@emily26 - Great catch on the landing strip. I had totally forgotten about that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the stubble, though the Lostpedia discussion has written it off to hair growing after someone dies (though a little fact-checking online reveals that it's the skin receding, not the hair growing, and it didn't look like Locke's face was drying out and decomposing quite yet).
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I was thinking that Ben's call was too obvious that he went after Penny, but maybe it's not. I suspect that Widmore sent people to protect Penny. Maybe this means that Ben won't go after her any more. Or he'll try to kill her when she shows up on the Island with Desmond.
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Or maybe he really did kill Penny, and Desmond has to go back to the Island to kill Ben.
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(And yes, I love Penny's character too, but sometimes characters need to die)

@Dave Oh, I see.. she was fantasizing that Jack was Sawyer in Jack's bed..hahah

Not necessarily... she's always been attracted to Jack, but I think she'll ultimately end up with Sawyer, and that's her primary reason for going back. She just doesn't want to admit it to herself, hence sleeping with Jack.
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I'm seeing a lot of disappointment across the interwebs over this episode, but I'm not sure where exactly it's coming from. Maybe I've already given up on any O6-centric episodes (though I think this is the best O6 episode we've seen yet), or maybe I just expect them to go back in future episodes and tell us why everyone else was there. The other O6 backstories of how they got on the plane are obviously too deep to put time into this episode. They could have rushed through them all, and we'd be talking about how cheap the episode felt.

Now that I've had some time to process this episode, I think I agree that it was a little disappointing. Maybe it's because I had higher expectations of a Darlton-written episode, or maybe it's because I've forgotten what an episode that raises "non-mythology" questions is like (seriously, it's been, like, forever since we had one of those).
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However, I do agree with Tom that it'll be cool to have flashbacks again - and I hope there are - instead of the characters just answering these questions in exposition.
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I have issues with the Desmond/Hawking interaction. I understood "Flashes Before Your Eyes" to be Des' attempt to change the past, with Hawking setting him straight. As in, the past had already happened with him not buying the ring, but the second time around, he tries to do it differently. So did I interpret that whole episode incorrectly?... I'm missing something.
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I hope there's more with Granddad Shephard. Seems a real waste of a character to serve only as the vehicle for getting Christian's shoes.

Another little detail: if Hurley is really back in Dharma times, that increases the probability that it's his voice reading the Numbers

It seems too obvious Ben killed Penny. I'm sure Desmond would have tried to do a lot more than bloody and break Ben's arm. And if it is the case Desmond caused Ben's injury, why would Ben, a born survivor, decide to leave Desmond alive to come after him. Moreover, because Ben called from a marina, viewers are led to believe that Desmond and Penny traveled all the way from England to LA by boat.

In regards to the Aijia airlines, I wonder if the survivors from the plane crash were the ones shooting at Faraday et al a couple episodes back.

I don't doubt that there is a good chance she ends up with Sawyer in the end, but I don't think thats her motivation right now for going back. I think it is more Ben/Aaron/Jack related at the moment.. but i could def be wrong..

A couple interesting notes on who the Oceanic 6 might have "represented" while on the plane:
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Locke -- the proxy for Christian Shephard.
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Sun -- she has Jin's ring with her. Is she Rose?
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Hurley -- he's got the comic book and the guitar. Shades of Charlie and/or Walt?
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Sayid -- escorted by some type of government agent (although why they are going to Guam is anyone's guess). Is he Kate? (And is the woman the stand-in for the marshall?)
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Kate -- on the plane in order to escape raising Aaron. Is she Claire (who was going to LA while pregnant to give Aaron up for adoption)?
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Which leaves a couple wildcards: Ben, Jack, Lapidus, and the dude from Three Kings.
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Jack -- he could just be himself. But he's also a recent drug addict/alcoholic. Maybe some Charlie there too?
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Ben -- a mand of faith that was pretty beaten up/crippled (at least in his arm) when he got on the flight. A stand-in for Locke, or, maybe, Sawyer (Ben is a pretty big con-man after all).
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Lapidus -- the obvious choice is that he's just the pilot. But knowing what he knows about the island WHY didn't he turn the plane around when he saw Jack and the Oceanic 6? (Although the "We're not going to Guam, are we?" line was amazing).
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Finally, the guy from Three Kings (whose character name is, apparently, Caesar) -- racial stereotyping would say he's Sayid's stand-in, but really, we know NOTHING about him.

Remember, Walt didn't read the comic book until they crashed. It was Hurley's on the plane
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I think Caesar is either a Ben or Widmore plant.
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@Tom Shaw - did we hear Jin speak perfect English, or is that an assumption you're making (I was watching it on DVR late, so details from the very end of the episode are fuzzy to me)? Either way, I agree... the Islanders have definitely been there for about 3 years.
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I'm also assuming that the Incident is going to be what sends the Losties back to 2008/2009ish times.
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I also think the plane did crash. I don't really have much in the way of evidence, but I do think it crashed. /shrug