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	<title>Comments on: Big Love Re-Offends Mormons. Do They Have a Point?</title>
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	<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/</link>
	<description>A blog about television by TIME’s TV critic James Poniewozik.</description>
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		<title>By: lobetrotter</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20410</link>
		<dc:creator>lobetrotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20410</guid>
		<description>Mormons (who loudly insist that they are a mainstream Christian sect) complain that the &quot;Big Love&quot; episode  in question ridicules and disrespects their sacred temple beliefs and practices.  Yet, given the Mormon church&#039;s historic trail of attacking the tenets of faith which Christians hold dear, Mormons are hardly in a place to lecture members of other faith on that score.

Below are  some of the full-blown assaults on the Christian faith by high-ranking leaders of the  Mormon Church.  Please keep them in mind when you hear Mormons loudly protesting that their religion is not being afforded its proper and due respect:   


&quot;What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world.&quot;

-Mormonism&#039;s Founding Prophet and Church President Joseph Smith, in &quot;Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,&quot; p. 270 
_____


&quot;Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the &#039;whore of Babylon&#039; whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.&quot;

-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in &quot;The Seer,&quot; p. 255 
_____


&quot;After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon.&quot;

-Mormon Apostle George Q. Cannon, in &quot;Gospel Truth,&quot; p. 324
_____


&quot;When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in &quot;Journal of Discoursesm&quot; 5:73 
_____


&quot;With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 8:199
_____


&quot;The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 8:171 
_____


&quot;Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 6:176
_____


&quot;Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers&#039; sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. . . . You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.&quot;

-Mormon Apostle Heber C. Kimball, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 5:89
_____


&quot;The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President Wilford Woodruff, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; vol. 2, p. 196 
_____


&quot;Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.&quot;

-Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167 &quot;Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in
&quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 10:127
_____


&quot;What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 13:225
_____


&quot;What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.&quot;

-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in &quot;Journal of Discourses,&quot; 13:225 
_____


&quot;Instead of having apostles, prophets, and other inspired men in the church now, receiving visions, dreams, revelations, ministry of angels and prophesies for the calling of officers, and for the government of the church--they have a wicked, corrupt, uninspired pope, or uninspired archbishops, bishops, clergymen, etc., who have a great variety of corrupt forms of godliness, but utterly deny the gift of revelation, and every other miraculous power which always characterized Christ&#039;s Church.&quot;&quot;These manmade, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints.&quot;

-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in &quot;Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon,&quot; p. 20
_____ 


&quot;Must we, under the broad folds of the American Constitution, be compelled to bow down to the narrow contracted notions of Apostate Christianity? Must we shut up our consciences in a nut shell, and be compelled to submit to the bigoted notions, and whims, and customs of the dark ages of popery, transferred to us through the superstitious of our fathers? Must we be slaves to custom and render homage to the soul-destroying, sickening influences of modern Christianity? No!&quot;

-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in &quot;The Seer,&quot; Vol.1, No.7, p. 111
_____


&quot;And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foudation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth . . . .&quot;

-Supposedly the Mormon Jesus himself, in &quot;Doctrine and Covenants,&quot; 1:30
_____


&quot;My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.&quot;

&quot;I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them; . . . .&quot;

-Founding Mormon Prophet and Church President Joseph Smith, in &quot;Joseph Smith History,&quot; 1:18-20 

*****


The above and more at: 

http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mormons (who loudly insist that they are a mainstream Christian sect) complain that the "Big Love" episode  in question ridicules and disrespects their sacred temple beliefs and practices.  Yet, given the Mormon church's historic trail of attacking the tenets of faith which Christians hold dear, Mormons are hardly in a place to lecture members of other faith on that score.</p>
<p>Below are  some of the full-blown assaults on the Christian faith by high-ranking leaders of the  Mormon Church.  Please keep them in mind when you hear Mormons loudly protesting that their religion is not being afforded its proper and due respect:   </p>
<p>"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world."</p>
<p>-Mormonism's Founding Prophet and Church President Joseph Smith, in "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," p. 270<br />
_____</p>
<p>"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."</p>
<p>-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in "The Seer," p. 255<br />
_____</p>
<p>"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."</p>
<p>-Mormon Apostle George Q. Cannon, in "Gospel Truth," p. 324<br />
_____</p>
<p>"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in "Journal of Discoursesm" 5:73<br />
_____</p>
<p>"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in "Journal of Discourses," 8:199<br />
_____</p>
<p>"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in "Journal of Discourses," 8:171<br />
_____</p>
<p>"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President Brigham Young, in "Journal of Discourses," 6:176<br />
_____</p>
<p>"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. . . . You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest."</p>
<p>-Mormon Apostle Heber C. Kimball, in "Journal of Discourses," 5:89<br />
_____</p>
<p>"The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President Wilford Woodruff, in "Journal of Discourses," vol. 2, p. 196<br />
_____</p>
<p>"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."</p>
<p>-Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167 "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in<br />
"Journal of Discourses," 10:127<br />
_____</p>
<p>"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in "Journal of Discourses," 13:225<br />
_____</p>
<p>"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."</p>
<p>-Mormon Prophet and Church President John Taylor, in "Journal of Discourses," 13:225<br />
_____</p>
<p>"Instead of having apostles, prophets, and other inspired men in the church now, receiving visions, dreams, revelations, ministry of angels and prophesies for the calling of officers, and for the government of the church--they have a wicked, corrupt, uninspired pope, or uninspired archbishops, bishops, clergymen, etc., who have a great variety of corrupt forms of godliness, but utterly deny the gift of revelation, and every other miraculous power which always characterized Christ's Church.""These manmade, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints."</p>
<p>-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in "Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon," p. 20<br />
_____ </p>
<p>"Must we, under the broad folds of the American Constitution, be compelled to bow down to the narrow contracted notions of Apostate Christianity? Must we shut up our consciences in a nut shell, and be compelled to submit to the bigoted notions, and whims, and customs of the dark ages of popery, transferred to us through the superstitious of our fathers? Must we be slaves to custom and render homage to the soul-destroying, sickening influences of modern Christianity? No!"</p>
<p>-Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in "The Seer," Vol.1, No.7, p. 111<br />
_____</p>
<p>"And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foudation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth . . . ."</p>
<p>-Supposedly the Mormon Jesus himself, in "Doctrine and Covenants," 1:30<br />
_____</p>
<p>"My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join."</p>
<p>"I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them; . . . ."</p>
<p>-Founding Mormon Prophet and Church President Joseph Smith, in "Joseph Smith History," 1:18-20 </p>
<p>*****</p>
<p>The above and more at: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: abarrios28</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20407</link>
		<dc:creator>abarrios28</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20407</guid>
		<description>Steve. . .you are awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve. . .you are awesome!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lobetrotter</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20406</link>
		<dc:creator>lobetrotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20406</guid>
		<description>I watched the temple episode at the home of some acquaintances, along with a few other guests--none of whom were either Mormons or practicing Mormons. 

It is truly amazing how faithful Latter-day Saints are so up in arms about a show that forthrightly--yet without silly circus hype--provided a revealing and credible window into the secretive, bizarre and mind-controlling aspects of Mormon belief, practice and worship. 

Hiding behind their curtain of so-called &quot;sacredness&quot; is simply a way by which insecure Mormons seek to avoid personal embarrassment and accountability with regard to what they actually teach and practice.

I thought the depiction of the Mormon-Mason temple endowment scenes was accurate, relevant and appropriately cultish: http://www.dailymotion.com/deliciousfeeling/video/14583859

The instrusive, patriarchal excommunication hearing was heart-wrenching. 

The historical connection made between the original polygamous teachings/practices of the Mormon Church and those of contemporary fundamantalist Mormon polygamist groups was clearly and significantly made.

As one former Mormon in our group noted, &quot;The temple preparation classes [provided by the LDS Church to those gearing up to go through for their own temple &#039;endowments&#039;) are absolutely worthless.&quot;

In contrast, what went on  at our little get-together was a temple warning class that hopefully served a more worthwhile purpose.

The Mormon Church is finding itself under the hot glare of increasing and justified scrutiny. 

I sense it is beginning to melt.

--Steve Benson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched the temple episode at the home of some acquaintances, along with a few other guests--none of whom were either Mormons or practicing Mormons. </p>
<p>It is truly amazing how faithful Latter-day Saints are so up in arms about a show that forthrightly--yet without silly circus hype--provided a revealing and credible window into the secretive, bizarre and mind-controlling aspects of Mormon belief, practice and worship. </p>
<p>Hiding behind their curtain of so-called "sacredness" is simply a way by which insecure Mormons seek to avoid personal embarrassment and accountability with regard to what they actually teach and practice.</p>
<p>I thought the depiction of the Mormon-Mason temple endowment scenes was accurate, relevant and appropriately cultish: <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/deliciousfeeling/video/14583859" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymotion.com/deliciousfeeling/video/14583859</a></p>
<p>The instrusive, patriarchal excommunication hearing was heart-wrenching. </p>
<p>The historical connection made between the original polygamous teachings/practices of the Mormon Church and those of contemporary fundamantalist Mormon polygamist groups was clearly and significantly made.</p>
<p>As one former Mormon in our group noted, "The temple preparation classes [provided by the LDS Church to those gearing up to go through for their own temple 'endowments') are absolutely worthless."</p>
<p>In contrast, what went on  at our little get-together was a temple warning class that hopefully served a more worthwhile purpose.</p>
<p>The Mormon Church is finding itself under the hot glare of increasing and justified scrutiny. </p>
<p>I sense it is beginning to melt.</p>
<p>--Steve Benson</p>
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		<title>By: Big Love Watch: Nearer My God to Thee :: Tuned In - TIME.com</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20388</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Love Watch: Nearer My God to Thee :: Tuned In - TIME.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20388</guid>
		<description>[...] of the controversy over the endowment ceremony scene—which sparked a lengthy and fascinating debate here last week—we may as well divide up this week&#039;s Big Love into That Scene and Everything [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the controversy over the endowment ceremony scene—which sparked a lengthy and fascinating debate here last week—we may as well divide up this week's Big Love into That Scene and Everything [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: justmeherenow</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20384</link>
		<dc:creator>justmeherenow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20384</guid>
		<description>A Mormon blogger offers the following recap of the episode on his group blogsite (http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/15/the-controversial-big-love-episode.htm ):

The plot lead up

Near the start of the episode, Barb (the 1st wife, who was brought up LDS) receives a visit from her bishop and stake president. She confesses her polygamous relationships to them, and they talk about the possibility of a church disciplinary council.

Barb visits her mother and sister, and she begs them to lend her a temple recommend to “take out her endowments,” which doesn’t make any sense at all, because (a) she would have already received her own endowments, and (b) neither of the women she spoke to would have an endowment for a live ordinance to lend her.

Barb’s mother resists the plea to lend Barb her temple recommend, saying that it’s only been a few years since they eliminated the references to slit the throat and disembowel anyone who messes with the ceremonies. Barbara chides her mother that she never really bought into that superstition. Finally, Barbara gets on her knees to beg. The scene cuts to another plot line.

(Note: What follows does not reveal anything significant about the temple ceremony, but it does relates in detail how the temple ceremony was portrayed on television.)

What they show in the temple
After a few other plot lines develop, the camera switches to Barb in full temple attire performing the last sign in the prayer circled around an alter with a black top (personally, I’ve never seen black). We then cut to the veil, where Barb is asked, “What is this?” and she is offered the final token. A choir version of Samuel Barber’s Adagio for Strings plays in the background, and we watch a run through of the exchange at the veil from that point until the end.

Barb then enters the Celestial Room to see her mother and sister there (if they lent her one of their recommends, then how did they both get in?) The three of them have the following conversation:

Barb’s Mom: This is just a little foretaste of what eternity will look like. This is what binds us to each other. Let’s just sit here for a moment and soak up this delicious feeling.

Barb: [starts to cry]

Barb’s Mom: Oh, honey. What is it?

Barb’s Sister Cindy: Mother let her have a moment!

Barb: I’m fine.

Temple Worker: [offering her a tissue] Here you are dear

Barb’s Mom: What? Tell me!

Barb: I can’t.

Barb’s Sister Cindy: Mommy, why don’t you just let her be.

Barb: The stake president has called me to love court. The other shoe’s finally droping. I’m facing a disciplinary hearing tomorrow

Barb’s Mom: Why didn’t you tell us

Barb: I was so ashamed

Barb’s Mom: Oh, no. I thought you were gonna leave Bill.

Barb: No.

Barb’s Mom: Oh, I can’t bear this, the thought of loosing you

Barb’s sister Cindy:Leave him!

Barb: Oh, Cindy!

Barb’s sister Cindy: You can stop this. This is your chance to get away. Just say your sorry and be repentant. I didn’t mean it to come to this.

Barb: You didn’t mean what to come to this? Cindy, answer my question!

[Cindy runs away]

Temple worker: I’m sorry. You’re 15 minutes are up. [wtf?]

The Aftermath
Barb faces a disciplinary council with Margene at her side, after suffering mightily under the guilt associated with abandoning the church she was raised in, even having a nightmare about being cast into outer darkness. Barbara accuses them of executing orders from higher up due to the Henrickson’s attempt to interfere with a letter that the church purchased to cover up John Taylor’s authorization of polygamy. The stake president tacitly acknowledges this, and cites President Packer as saying “Some things that are true are not very useful.” The Stake President pronounces her excommunicated, while a choir sings “Nearer My God to Thee.”

My Analysis

So the temple ceremony scene was word-for-word accurate. On the one hand, the episode related quite meaningfully what Mormonism ment to Barb — including temple participation. And the portion of the ceremony that it displays is the portion that will clarify for non-Mormon viewers the role that temple worship plays in the lives of many Mormons; viz., its emphasis on mortality placed in the context of the Eternities and the reaching to God that reflects the mortal yearning to commune with our Creator.[...]

On the other hand, it really was superfluous. It seems to me that the authors wanted to display the most sacred parts of the ceremony, and they knew that no matter how they displayed them, they would offend Mormons. Thus, they did it as tastefully as possible to preserve deniability. Essential to the plot? Not by a long shot. The purpose of the scene was simply to use a sacred part of our worship to provide television entertainment. From a religious point of view, there’s no excuse for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Mormon blogger offers the following recap of the episode on his group blogsite (<a href="http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/15/the-controversial-big-love-episode.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/03/15/the-controversial-big-love-episode.htm</a> ):</p>
<p>The plot lead up</p>
<p>Near the start of the episode, Barb (the 1st wife, who was brought up LDS) receives a visit from her bishop and stake president. She confesses her polygamous relationships to them, and they talk about the possibility of a church disciplinary council.</p>
<p>Barb visits her mother and sister, and she begs them to lend her a temple recommend to “take out her endowments,” which doesn't make any sense at all, because (a) she would have already received her own endowments, and (b) neither of the women she spoke to would have an endowment for a live ordinance to lend her.</p>
<p>Barb's mother resists the plea to lend Barb her temple recommend, saying that it's only been a few years since they eliminated the references to slit the throat and disembowel anyone who messes with the ceremonies. Barbara chides her mother that she never really bought into that superstition. Finally, Barbara gets on her knees to beg. The scene cuts to another plot line.</p>
<p>(Note: What follows does not reveal anything significant about the temple ceremony, but it does relates in detail how the temple ceremony was portrayed on television.)</p>
<p>What they show in the temple<br />
After a few other plot lines develop, the camera switches to Barb in full temple attire performing the last sign in the prayer circled around an alter with a black top (personally, I've never seen black). We then cut to the veil, where Barb is asked, “What is this?” and she is offered the final token. A choir version of Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings plays in the background, and we watch a run through of the exchange at the veil from that point until the end.</p>
<p>Barb then enters the Celestial Room to see her mother and sister there (if they lent her one of their recommends, then how did they both get in?) The three of them have the following conversation:</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: This is just a little foretaste of what eternity will look like. This is what binds us to each other. Let's just sit here for a moment and soak up this delicious feeling.</p>
<p>Barb: [starts to cry]</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: Oh, honey. What is it?</p>
<p>Barb's Sister Cindy: Mother let her have a moment!</p>
<p>Barb: I'm fine.</p>
<p>Temple Worker: [offering her a tissue] Here you are dear</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: What? Tell me!</p>
<p>Barb: I can't.</p>
<p>Barb's Sister Cindy: Mommy, why don't you just let her be.</p>
<p>Barb: The stake president has called me to love court. The other shoe's finally droping. I'm facing a disciplinary hearing tomorrow</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: Why didn't you tell us</p>
<p>Barb: I was so ashamed</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: Oh, no. I thought you were gonna leave Bill.</p>
<p>Barb: No.</p>
<p>Barb's Mom: Oh, I can't bear this, the thought of loosing you</p>
<p>Barb's sister Cindy:Leave him!</p>
<p>Barb: Oh, Cindy!</p>
<p>Barb's sister Cindy: You can stop this. This is your chance to get away. Just say your sorry and be repentant. I didn't mean it to come to this.</p>
<p>Barb: You didn't mean what to come to this? Cindy, answer my question!</p>
<p>[Cindy runs away]</p>
<p>Temple worker: I'm sorry. You're 15 minutes are up. [wtf?]</p>
<p>The Aftermath<br />
Barb faces a disciplinary council with Margene at her side, after suffering mightily under the guilt associated with abandoning the church she was raised in, even having a nightmare about being cast into outer darkness. Barbara accuses them of executing orders from higher up due to the Henrickson's attempt to interfere with a letter that the church purchased to cover up John Taylor's authorization of polygamy. The stake president tacitly acknowledges this, and cites President Packer as saying “Some things that are true are not very useful.” The Stake President pronounces her excommunicated, while a choir sings “Nearer My God to Thee.”</p>
<p>My Analysis</p>
<p>So the temple ceremony scene was word-for-word accurate. On the one hand, the episode related quite meaningfully what Mormonism ment to Barb — including temple participation. And the portion of the ceremony that it displays is the portion that will clarify for non-Mormon viewers the role that temple worship plays in the lives of many Mormons; viz., its emphasis on mortality placed in the context of the Eternities and the reaching to God that reflects the mortal yearning to commune with our Creator.[...]</p>
<p>On the other hand, it really was superfluous. It seems to me that the authors wanted to display the most sacred parts of the ceremony, and they knew that no matter how they displayed them, they would offend Mormons. Thus, they did it as tastefully as possible to preserve deniability. Essential to the plot? Not by a long shot. The purpose of the scene was simply to use a sacred part of our worship to provide television entertainment. From a religious point of view, there's no excuse for this.</p>
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		<title>By: lobetrotter</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20380</link>
		<dc:creator>lobetrotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20380</guid>
		<description>Steve Benson here.

Below are some  not-so-sacred &quot;spoilers&quot; concerning certain  elements  of tonight&#039;s scheduled broadcast of HBO&#039;s &quot;Big Love&quot; episode, as reported  by   &quot;New York Post&quot; columnist Linda Stasi.  

They have to do with Mormon temple rituals involving symbolic disembowelment and close personal physical contact made by LDS temple veil workers with initiatory patrons. (Both of these activities were eliminated by the Mormon Church from its  temple ceremony  in 1990, after increasing public revelation of the ceremony&#039;s actual content). 

Stasi notes some of those details, as follows:

&quot;I figure that anything that doesn&#039;t involve say, disemboweling sinners . . . or the indiscriminate use of the rack should be open for all to see. What if you wanted to join up - wouldn&#039;t you want to know the secrets before signing on? (You&#039;ll have to watch the show to get the &#039;disemboweling&#039; reference).&quot;

Stasi also quotes apparent &quot;Big Love&quot; reference to contact-point chants made by the Mormon faithful at the Veil (where the temple worker would bring the initiated patron into the close physical &quot;Five Points of Fellowship&quot; Masonic-derived embrace through the veil:  

&quot;Although the actual endowment ceremony in real life takes two hours and involves recreating church history, only a small part of the ceremony is shown here [in the &#039;Big Love&#039; episode], and it involves the wearing of veils and confirming that one wants: &#039;Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and [in] the sinews, power in the priesthood be upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout eternity.&#039;&quot;

(&quot;&#039;Love Story&#039;: Linda&#039;s Take on &#039;Big&#039; Strife,&quot; at: http://www.nypost.com/seven/03142009/tv/love_story_159434.htm
_____</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Benson here.</p>
<p>Below are some  not-so-sacred "spoilers" concerning certain  elements  of tonight's scheduled broadcast of HBO's "Big Love" episode, as reported  by   "New York Post" columnist Linda Stasi.  </p>
<p>They have to do with Mormon temple rituals involving symbolic disembowelment and close personal physical contact made by LDS temple veil workers with initiatory patrons. (Both of these activities were eliminated by the Mormon Church from its  temple ceremony  in 1990, after increasing public revelation of the ceremony's actual content). </p>
<p>Stasi notes some of those details, as follows:</p>
<p>"I figure that anything that doesn't involve say, disemboweling sinners . . . or the indiscriminate use of the rack should be open for all to see. What if you wanted to join up - wouldn't you want to know the secrets before signing on? (You'll have to watch the show to get the 'disemboweling' reference)."</p>
<p>Stasi also quotes apparent "Big Love" reference to contact-point chants made by the Mormon faithful at the Veil (where the temple worker would bring the initiated patron into the close physical "Five Points of Fellowship" Masonic-derived embrace through the veil:  </p>
<p>"Although the actual endowment ceremony in real life takes two hours and involves recreating church history, only a small part of the ceremony is shown here [in the 'Big Love' episode], and it involves the wearing of veils and confirming that one wants: 'Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and [in] the sinews, power in the priesthood be upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout eternity.'"</p>
<p>("'Love Story': Linda's Take on 'Big' Strife," at: <a href="http://www.nypost.com/seven/03142009/tv/love_story_159434.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nypost.com/seven/03142009/tv/love_story_159434.htm</a><br />
_____</p>
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		<title>By: swearingelder</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-3/#comment-20376</link>
		<dc:creator>swearingelder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20376</guid>
		<description>To all those offended by the the &quot;Big Love&quot; episode, keep in mind the following:  

a) This will take place in a fictional setting. I&#039;m sure it will be done realistically but they did not use deception to enter a temple (e.g., with a fake or stolen temple recommend), and they did not tape actual people in an actual ceremony.

b) If you enjoyed the DaVinci Code, the Godfather, Keeping the Faith, Dogma, All About My Mother, Schindler&#039;s List, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H, or any of the other thousands of films or TV shows depicting the sacred practices of another religion, ask yourself how different this is.  Yes, Mormons consider these rituals to be &quot;secret&quot; while many of the ceremonies in other churches are open to outsiders (while still sacred to believers), but why should Mormons be privileged to be the only religion that can&#039;t be depicted in their religious practices?  We can we make movies about Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Hindus, and whoever else, but not Mormons?  Why, exactly?

Also, if you&#039;re reading this you&#039;re mostly like aware of a little invention known as the &quot;internet.&quot; You may have even heard of &quot;bookstores&quot; or &quot;libraries.&quot; In any of these places you can read about every aspect of the ceremonies. And you don&#039;t even have to go to anti-Mormon sites or books.  Just pick up a copy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=duncan%27s+ritual+of+freemasonry&amp;x=0&amp;y=0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Duncan&#039;s Ritual of Freemasonry,&quot; &lt;/a&gt;originally published in 1866 and having &lt;i&gt;absolutely nothing to do with Mormonism&lt;/i&gt;. It&#039;s also available &lt;a&gt;online&lt;/a&gt;.

We can debate all day long about why Joseph Smith appropriated Masonic rituals for the temple, but the simple point is that he did.  And it&#039;s all out there, easily accessible. (Also, if you think it&#039;s more different than the current ceremony than you expected, that&#039;s because the endowment ceremony has been changed multiple times over the years, taking out the penalties, for example, while the Masonic ritual has remained relatively stable, keeping said penalties.)

Oh, one last thought: HBO is a subscriber-based channel.  Don&#039;t subscribe if you don&#039;t want to watch.  If you are a subscriber, watch something else Sunday night if you don&#039;t want to see this. 

I wonder how many thank you cards and gift baskets HBO has sent to the LDS Church PR Department for making much-ado about nothing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all those offended by the the "Big Love" episode, keep in mind the following:  </p>
<p>a) This will take place in a fictional setting. I'm sure it will be done realistically but they did not use deception to enter a temple (e.g., with a fake or stolen temple recommend), and they did not tape actual people in an actual ceremony.</p>
<p>b) If you enjoyed the DaVinci Code, the Godfather, Keeping the Faith, Dogma, All About My Mother, Schindler's List, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H, or any of the other thousands of films or TV shows depicting the sacred practices of another religion, ask yourself how different this is.  Yes, Mormons consider these rituals to be "secret" while many of the ceremonies in other churches are open to outsiders (while still sacred to believers), but why should Mormons be privileged to be the only religion that can't be depicted in their religious practices?  We can we make movies about Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Hindus, and whoever else, but not Mormons?  Why, exactly?</p>
<p>Also, if you're reading this you're mostly like aware of a little invention known as the "internet." You may have even heard of "bookstores" or "libraries." In any of these places you can read about every aspect of the ceremonies. And you don't even have to go to anti-Mormon sites or books.  Just pick up a copy of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=duncan%27s+ritual+of+freemasonry&amp;x=0&amp;y=0" rel="nofollow">"Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry," </a>originally published in 1866 and having <i>absolutely nothing to do with Mormonism</i>. It's also available <a>online</a>.</p>
<p>We can debate all day long about why Joseph Smith appropriated Masonic rituals for the temple, but the simple point is that he did.  And it's all out there, easily accessible. (Also, if you think it's more different than the current ceremony than you expected, that's because the endowment ceremony has been changed multiple times over the years, taking out the penalties, for example, while the Masonic ritual has remained relatively stable, keeping said penalties.)</p>
<p>Oh, one last thought: HBO is a subscriber-based channel.  Don't subscribe if you don't want to watch.  If you are a subscriber, watch something else Sunday night if you don't want to see this. </p>
<p>I wonder how many thank you cards and gift baskets HBO has sent to the LDS Church PR Department for making much-ado about nothing!</p>
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		<title>By: excultgirl</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-2/#comment-20375</link>
		<dc:creator>excultgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20375</guid>
		<description>I was born and raised Mormon. I recently left this cult after several years of studying its history. I was never taught in Sunday school that the founding prophet, Joseph Smith, had over 30 secret polygamous wives. I also learned that the temple ceremony was “revealed” several weeks after Joseph became a Freemason. I started to question everything about my faith. I started to see that it was a ridiculous religion especially the temple ceremony. I concluded that if there really was a god that there was no way that he would require secret words, signs and handshakes to get into heaven. It made to sense. Of course now I welcome the spotlight on this silly so-called sacred ceremony. I hope that it will keep others away from joining this cult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born and raised Mormon. I recently left this cult after several years of studying its history. I was never taught in Sunday school that the founding prophet, Joseph Smith, had over 30 secret polygamous wives. I also learned that the temple ceremony was “revealed” several weeks after Joseph became a Freemason. I started to question everything about my faith. I started to see that it was a ridiculous religion especially the temple ceremony. I concluded that if there really was a god that there was no way that he would require secret words, signs and handshakes to get into heaven. It made to sense. Of course now I welcome the spotlight on this silly so-called sacred ceremony. I hope that it will keep others away from joining this cult.</p>
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		<title>By: lobetrotter</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-2/#comment-20374</link>
		<dc:creator>lobetrotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20374</guid>
		<description>Thanks, &quot;blubergamo.&quot;

With the upcoming scheduled airing of HBO&#039;s &quot;Big Love&quot; episode (which, of course, the entire country now knows includes a portrayal of Mormonism&#039;s secret temple ceremonies), there have been more and more chances afforded ex-Mormons to explain what the Mormon Church strives to hide from those it seeks to deceive, to convert, or both.

&quot;TV Guide&quot; deserves  kudos for giving an initial airing to the views of &quot;Big Love&#039;s&quot; executive producers, who explained their decision to recreate the LDS episode for the show&#039;s significant national audience. 

As &quot;TV Guide&quot; reported: 

&quot;We researched it out the wazoo,&quot; says [executive producer Mark] Olsen, who along with executive producer WIll Scheffer hired an ex-Mormon consultant to help the set and wardrobe designers re-create even the tiniest details [of the Mormon temple ceremony]. &#039;We go into the Endowment Room and the Celestial Room . . . and we present what happens in those ceremonies. That&#039;;s never been shown on television before,&#039; says Olsen. 

&quot;Adds Scheffer, &#039;But it&#039;s not for shock value. It&#039;s really a very important part of the storty.&#039; . . . . 

&quot;According to a [Mormon] church insider, &#039;If they are in fact trying to emulate those rooms in any way, that would be extremely offensive. The general public is not allowed in our temples yet. Not even all Mormons all. We consider them very, very sacred.&#039;&quot;

&quot;Big Love&#039;s&quot; producers were given further opportunity to both promote the episode and teasingly provide its viewers with more information about the Mormon temple ceremony itself, while offering a carefully-designed &quot;apology&quot; to offended Mormons. 

Reported the &quot;New York Times&quot;: 

&quot;An episode of &#039;Big Love,&#039; the HBO series about a polygamous Mormon family, above, has courted controversy with the Mormon church and prompted an apology from the cable channel before the show has run, The Associated Press [A.P.] reported. The episode, scheduled for Sunday, will show a character undergoing an endowment ceremony, a religious rite the church considers sacred. In a statement, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said, &#039;Certainly church members are offended when their most sacred practices are misrepresented or presented without context or understanding,&#039; according to The A.P. 

&quot;HBO said that it did not intend to cause offense to the church and apologized but added that the ceremony was an important part of the episode. In a statement the show’s creators, Mark V. Olsen and Will Scheffer, said they &#039;took great pains to depict the ceremony with the dignity and reverence it is due,&#039; The A.P. reported.&quot; 

Even in the heart of Mormon Zion, the &quot;Salt Lake Tribune&quot; posted an uncropped stlll photo from the planned &quot;Big Love&quot; episode (that is, before eventually pulling it off its website, as did &quot;TV Guide&quot; with its down-sized version). 

Nonetheless, a copy of that photo was made before the &quot;Salt Lake Tribune&quot; could remove it from online viewing and is available for examination (with a link provided earlier in this commentary section).

It appears that Mormon defenders of the indefensible don&#039;t quite know what to do with such accurate exposure. It seems that it&#039;s becoming increasingly difficult for them to lie their way out from under the Internet tsunami. 

In recent years, the media&#039;s sniffing snowball has been gaining both size and speed, as more publicity is being given by an increasingly-interested press corps to accounts of Mormonism&#039;s bizarre temple rites and related secrets, as the Mormon Church finds itself under the unwanted glare of increased attention. 

This has been a welcome development for the ex-Mormon community, as it finds itself being invited to speak more openly and increasingly for the record about what we know--and about what the Mormon Church doesn&#039;t want others to know. These chances are certainly expanding in the wake of such recent events as anti-gay rights efforts funded by the Mormon Church via Proposition 8 in California, national cable TV exposure of the Mormon Church&#039;s Masonic-rooted temple ceremonies and the arrest of child-abusing fundamenatlist Mormon polygamists who have been guilty of practicing what Joseph Smith was preaching.

--Steve Benson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, "blubergamo."</p>
<p>With the upcoming scheduled airing of HBO's "Big Love" episode (which, of course, the entire country now knows includes a portrayal of Mormonism's secret temple ceremonies), there have been more and more chances afforded ex-Mormons to explain what the Mormon Church strives to hide from those it seeks to deceive, to convert, or both.</p>
<p>"TV Guide" deserves  kudos for giving an initial airing to the views of "Big Love's" executive producers, who explained their decision to recreate the LDS episode for the show's significant national audience. </p>
<p>As "TV Guide" reported: </p>
<p>"We researched it out the wazoo," says [executive producer Mark] Olsen, who along with executive producer WIll Scheffer hired an ex-Mormon consultant to help the set and wardrobe designers re-create even the tiniest details [of the Mormon temple ceremony]. 'We go into the Endowment Room and the Celestial Room . . . and we present what happens in those ceremonies. That';s never been shown on television before,' says Olsen. </p>
<p>"Adds Scheffer, 'But it's not for shock value. It's really a very important part of the storty.' . . . . </p>
<p>"According to a [Mormon] church insider, 'If they are in fact trying to emulate those rooms in any way, that would be extremely offensive. The general public is not allowed in our temples yet. Not even all Mormons all. We consider them very, very sacred.'"</p>
<p>"Big Love's" producers were given further opportunity to both promote the episode and teasingly provide its viewers with more information about the Mormon temple ceremony itself, while offering a carefully-designed "apology" to offended Mormons. </p>
<p>Reported the "New York Times": </p>
<p>"An episode of 'Big Love,' the HBO series about a polygamous Mormon family, above, has courted controversy with the Mormon church and prompted an apology from the cable channel before the show has run, The Associated Press [A.P.] reported. The episode, scheduled for Sunday, will show a character undergoing an endowment ceremony, a religious rite the church considers sacred. In a statement, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said, 'Certainly church members are offended when their most sacred practices are misrepresented or presented without context or understanding,' according to The A.P. </p>
<p>"HBO said that it did not intend to cause offense to the church and apologized but added that the ceremony was an important part of the episode. In a statement the show's creators, Mark V. Olsen and Will Scheffer, said they 'took great pains to depict the ceremony with the dignity and reverence it is due,' The A.P. reported." </p>
<p>Even in the heart of Mormon Zion, the "Salt Lake Tribune" posted an uncropped stlll photo from the planned "Big Love" episode (that is, before eventually pulling it off its website, as did "TV Guide" with its down-sized version). </p>
<p>Nonetheless, a copy of that photo was made before the "Salt Lake Tribune" could remove it from online viewing and is available for examination (with a link provided earlier in this commentary section).</p>
<p>It appears that Mormon defenders of the indefensible don't quite know what to do with such accurate exposure. It seems that it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to lie their way out from under the Internet tsunami. </p>
<p>In recent years, the media's sniffing snowball has been gaining both size and speed, as more publicity is being given by an increasingly-interested press corps to accounts of Mormonism's bizarre temple rites and related secrets, as the Mormon Church finds itself under the unwanted glare of increased attention. </p>
<p>This has been a welcome development for the ex-Mormon community, as it finds itself being invited to speak more openly and increasingly for the record about what we know--and about what the Mormon Church doesn't want others to know. These chances are certainly expanding in the wake of such recent events as anti-gay rights efforts funded by the Mormon Church via Proposition 8 in California, national cable TV exposure of the Mormon Church's Masonic-rooted temple ceremonies and the arrest of child-abusing fundamenatlist Mormon polygamists who have been guilty of practicing what Joseph Smith was preaching.</p>
<p>--Steve Benson</p>
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		<title>By: blubergamo</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/11/big-love-re-offends-mormons-do-they-have-a-point/comment-page-2/#comment-20373</link>
		<dc:creator>blubergamo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=3589#comment-20373</guid>
		<description>Steve, you da man. Thanks for all that information and not holding back on your well articulated facts. And, incidentally, I&#039;ve always loved your cartoons, too--kind of McNelly-like (I still miss that guy). Preach it, brother!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you da man. Thanks for all that information and not holding back on your well articulated facts. And, incidentally, I've always loved your cartoons, too--kind of McNelly-like (I still miss that guy). Preach it, brother!</p>
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