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Stewart/Cramer: Who's This Song About?
So did Stewart get Cramer? Did he get him good? Did he stick it to him? As I posted yesterday, there's a big temptation to frame last night's head-to-head between Jon Stewart and Jim Cramer as a battle between two guys. But as Stewart told Cramer, to his credit, "This song isn't about you." (Indeed, Cramer's thin-skinned personal reaction to an initial Daily Show segment that was about CNBC generally did more to make it about him than anything Stewart did.)
So, be my guest—talk among yourselves about who "won" the interview. (By the way, The Daily Show also has the full unedited exchange online.) Dance in the streets with Cramer's trophy head held aloft if you like. (As I type, The Huffington Post's headline is JON STEWART EVISCERATES JIM CRAMER AND CNBC, in VICTORY DECLARED IN EUROPE-sized type. Drudge is rather more coy on the subject.) It was a beatdown, to be sure. (After airing a promo for Cramer's Mad Money which could have itself been a Daily Show parody: "I understand you want to make finance entertaining, but it's not a f__ing game.) But in the long run, it was most fascinating as a discussion about how business journalism in particular and journalism in general are done in America.
About CNBC generally, Stewart kept returning to the question not only of why the network didn't report on financial disaster coming, but who CNBC is for at all: "Who are you responsible to? The people in the 401ks and the pensions and the general public, or the Wall Street traders?" Stewart asked (adding that most traders are "bright guys" who are "f__ed in all this too").
The answer seems pretty plain if you watch the channel: it's for the traders. Period. It's not just that CNBC doesn't serve average, buy-and-hold investors. It's that its very existence—at least, as it is presently aimed and structured—goes against their interests. CNBC is by and large about market timing and trading the market in the short term—exactly the sort of thing that average investors should not be doing. (It's not that CNBC should have sounded some "sell" signal so that 401k investors could have bailed out of the market at the top; trying to do that kind of timing is bad advice for average folks generally. The question is how complicit it was in the market getting to unsustainable heights in an unsustainable manner, thus cleaning those average folks out.)
But being aimed at traders doesn't mean being in service of CEOs, who were often seeking to spin at best on the network's air, and at worst were out-and-out lying. The question, as Stewart came at over and over, was: What did CNBC know and when did it know it? Or, rather: if people like Cramer knew there were shenanigans going on on Wall Street—as shown by clips from his excruciating online video cynically describing manipulations that he said he'd never talk about on TV—then why not call them out?
A few of Cramer's responses are especially eye-opening, not just as they relate to business news but to problems that journalism has generally:
* "These people were my friends." Cramer said that, or something like it, repeatedly: that longtime friends flat-out lied to him. So problem one: coziness with sources is death for the information business. Now, Cramer is a commentator, not a reporter, and I don't begrudge him friends per se. But it is a problem when reporters either become too close to their subjects to treat them skeptically, or become so obsessed with access that they are leery of being too skeptical: i.e., "If I do that, they'll never talk to me again."
Journalists prize getting people to talk to them, with good reason, but they shouldn't be hostage to it. Part of the problem is a culture in which interviewing is privileged over research: "reporting" is defined as getting a person to talk to you, preferably a famous person. But as the original Daily Show CNBC clip showed, research can be pretty powerful—then it created a situation where Cramer pretty much had to talk.
* "We have reporters who try really hard who were not always told the truth. But most importantly, the market was going up for a long time, and our real sin I think was to believe that it could continue to go up a lot in the face of what you describe." Again, leave aside the particulars of CNBC here, and there's another lesson about journalism: it's always safer to say the thing the last guy said (the market's going up!) than to be the first one to say the next thing (the market's going to go down!). Whether it's CDS's or WMD's, the process is the same and the result is a huge loss of credibility and trust. In the long run. In the short run, unfortunately, it's what gets rewarded. And if there's one thing the financial crisis has taught us, it's how often people consider the short run first.
* "It's difficult to have a reporter say, 'I just came from an interview with Hank Paulson, and he lied his darn-fool head off.' It's difficult. I think it challenges the boundaries." OK, this is an easy quote to attack—why not just say he's lying, damn you!—but in fairness it's not as simple than that. The real story—and not at all a more flattering story—is that lies like these are not obvious and cut-and-dried: refuting them takes a lot of work and a lot of time and often involves sticking your neck out and going against the crowd (see previous point). Much easier to quote your subject, adding a caveat if necessary, and move on.
Much easier, too, to make this story about a feud between two cable-TV stars, declare a winner, and move on. Because then we don't have to recognize that this song is about us.
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1
I'd like to say that this was an example of what the media must necessarily do, but that's unrealistic. The reason we rarely see interviews like this is because anyone who conducts them will soon find out that no one wants to talk to them. The system is flawed in that way, but it's flawed because the public allows it to be. Ideally, submitting to interviews like this should be a basic part of being a politician or CEO of a publicly traded company, but that won't happen until the public demands it. I just don't think enough people truly care about such things.
Instead, CEOs and politicians only take the easy interviews, which most members of the media are all to willing to give because it's the only way they can get any access.
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2
I just watched the clips, and that was one of the most satisfying things I've seen in a long time. It looked to me like Stewart was brilliant, alpha-dogging Cramer in a firm and methodical and reasonable way. Cramer (whose show I don't watch, so I don't know what he is normally like) came off looking like a stammering wuss-bag apologist.
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The scary thing is that it took Jon Stewart and a comedy news show to do the kind of digging and critical examination of issues, something that should be standard for all journalists. I agree with archstanton68 that this kind of critical examination should be the standard for politicians and executives to face. Yeah, maybe that would go 'against the grain' or whatever, but isn't that supposed to be the frakking point of journalism? Isn't it supposed to "take a lot of work and a lot of time and often involves sticking your neck out and going against the crowd"? Folks like Jon Stewart (and I'd also shout-out to Keith Olberman, who stuck his neck out to criticize the Bush administration back when most everyone else was scared to do so) have been having to carry the torch that the 'serious' journalists appear to have abandoned years ago. Another strike against the MSM. -
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I think Stewart nailed this interview, for one simple reason -- he's completely correct that CNBC is not "reporting" in the sense of investigating, scrutinizing numbers, questioning everything, and reporting the facts, but rather serving as a mouthpiece for the "insiders" of the Street.
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The fact that a "journalist" or even a "commentator" (as Cramer correctly named himself) on a supposed business news channel would say "We have reporters who try really hard who were not always told the truth" and bemoan the fact that he doesn't have subpoena power to force CEOs to tell the truth is ABSURD. Ask yourself this -- did Woodward and Bernstein have subpoena power when they reported Watergate? No. They dug for sources, pieced seemingly unrelated pieces of information together, developed facts in a slow and steady way, and in the end brought down the presidency. They didn't even have the Freedom of Information Act at their dispense (I believe).
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So Cramer saying that "CEOs lied to me" is the problem itself, in the sense that it reflects that CNBC's reporters (or commentators) were not EXPOSING those lies. It all brings to mind "The Smartest Guys in the Room," the wonderful documentary about the Enron collapse -- of COURSE it was unsustainable, and of COURSE the whole thing was going to fail spectacularly, but the problem was no reporter (or the SEC, or financial analyst) actually bothered to look at all the numbers, accounting, and underlying data to delve to the truth.
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Meanwhile, Stewart does EXACTLY that -- he prepped for his interview, researched old clips of Cramer discussing "fomenting" stock rumors (that Cramer in the clip implied or admitted were entirely bogus), and demonstrated that there IS a game here, and that CNBC as a network was NOT doing its job to expose these lies and manipulations. This is the 21st Century -- a show on Comedy Central written by a crack group of comedy writers have exposed the fact that CNBC, the Emperor of business news, has no clothes. -
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@archstanton68 and shara: I'll disagree with both of you slightly -- in politics, we DO have reporters doing these critical examinations. Yes, sometimes they are denied access to direct interviews with politicians, but then they go to other sources of facts, report them, and expose political lies and machinations. No political reporter would ever be caught dead saying things like Cramer said on the Daily Show, or bemoaning the fact that CEOs had "lied" to him -- they would have exposed the lie through careful reporting, either during or after the interview.
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[...] Posted by Karen Tumulty | Comments (0) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This Here's what media critic JP has to say about Stewart v. [...]
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Chaddogg
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Care to give some actual names for the examples of the journalists you describe? I don't see many of them at all in our national media. -
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excellent blog entry, JP.... it really belongs in the "dead tree" Time.
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but, of course, Stengel would never allow that, because what you've written is as much an indictment of Time itself (and Stengel's role in it) as it is of CNBC. -
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Jake Tapper today is bemoaning "partisan blinders" but it appears to me that only people with are particular agenda are able to muster the courage it takes to even begin to question the status quo.
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The circle of self-congratulation just winds tighter by the day. -
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@Chaddogg: You have a much higher opinion of the political press than I do. Look at the typical "reporting" that goes on: "The White House said x. House republicans said y" and that's it. Who's right? No one in the press actually figures it out. No one will ever say so-and-so is wrong (because if they do then they never get to interview so-and-so again).
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JP, thank you.
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Stewart is a master, but this task was too easy. In some ways, his outrage on our behalf is justified, but that assumes that any of us should really assume that most of what happens on cable new programs is journalism. It's not. Mostly, its ratings driven commentary for entertainment. There is only enough journalism thrown in to weakly obscure that fact. We can stomp our feet in anger about it or vote with our remote, rewarding what credible journalism there is with ratings.
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JP:
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Let's now observe to see if this story is given the context of what Jay Rosen calls "regression toward a phony mean".
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Rosen explains the phenomenon as such:
.“I'd take the point, but first someone would have to explain to me what ‘regression toward a phony mean' is.”
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It means journalists associate the middle with truth, when there may be no reason to.
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In his 1990 book, See How They Run, former Washington Post reporter Paul Taylor (once seen as heir to David Broder) explained why regression toward a phony mean is so common in journalism. It answers to a need for what he calls “refuge.” Here is what he said:
.“Sometimes I worry that my squeamishness about making sharp judgments, pro or con, makes me unfit for the slam-bang world of daily journalism. Other times I conclude that it makes me ideally suited for newspapering– certainly for the rigors and conventions of modern ‘objective' journalism. For I can dispose of my dilemmas by writing stories straight down the middle. I can search for the halfway point between the best and the worst that might be said about someone (or some policy or idea) and write my story in that fair-minded place. By aiming for the golden mean, I probably land near the best approximation of truth more often than if I were guided by any other set of compasses– partisan, ideological, pyschological, whatever… Yes, I am seeking truth. But I'm also seeking refuge. I'm taking a pass on the toughest calls I face.”
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Clearly, there can be something extreme about this squeamishness, too. Clearly, the desire for refuge can get out hand. Writing the news so that it lands somewhere near the “halfway point between the best and the worst that might be said about someone” is not a truthtelling impulse at all, but a refuge-seeking one. and it's possible that this ritual will distort a given story..
Do you predict that "this ritual" will "distort" this given story, too, JP? -
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Cramer is not unique.
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@btmorex - Isn't that supposed to be what the press is supposed to do? Report the facts and don't let opinion, bias, or emotion get in the way? Even so, I'm pretty sure we can tell what many reporters are thinking most of the time
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15
As with most events in the media, those who don't know anything about the subject thought Stewart "won." Those who have a clue realize that Stewart was way out of his depth and is lucky that Cramer was too polite to set him straight regarding his amazing ignorance. I speak as a former fan of the Daily Show and someone who started supporting Obama 2 years ago (which is what this is really about) - Stewart should spend days watching CNBC before he speaks about what they do or do not do.
Cramer may be wrong about individual stocks, but he tells people to do their own homework and teaches them how to do it. He told everyone to get out of the market when the Dow was over 10,000 and he explained the downward pressure being put on by hedge funds pulling out throughout the fall. He also told people to sell into the rally a few weeks ago because the market was going to go down - right before the "worst week" this year.
But, all of this is get rich quick information to Jon Stewart because we all should "work hard" for his money the way he does. Ironically, Cramer has been advocating bailout of the mortgages/homeowners for months - which is what this whole feud started with (Rick Santelli railing against the bailout of bad mortgages and Robert Gibbs reacting to Santelli's rant).
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@Dave: Yes, the press should report facts without opinion, bias, or emotion. That's not really what this is about though. They also have the duty to verify claims.
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If someone says "the world is flat" in an interview, a reporter shouldn't *just* write "so-and-so claimed the world is flat". It's their duty to follow up on that, do research, and also say "Hundreds of years of scientific experiments prove that the world is actually spherical".
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Obviously, this is a short contrived example that shouldn't be controversial. The point is that the press never does this kind of reporting. They never actually try to verify claims. -
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@stuartzechman: I'm not sure, partly because I don't know what the regression toward the phony mean would be in the instance of Cramer v. Stewart. Would it be to say that Cramer is a little right and Stewart is a little right? That is the general pattern we see in the phenomenon Rosen is talking about, right: the (protective) tendency to conclude the truth must always lie somewhere in the middle? As you know as well as I do, there are plenty of examples of this in reporting history--the classic case of "balancing" global warming deniers vs. most scientists, or the way the argument over the housing market was reported BEFORE it burst, etc.
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In this particular case, I don't know if that's what will happen... maybe you'll see piling on Cramer, because it's 'safe' to do so now (like it became safe to be critical of the White House after Katrina), and because, as I've been harping on, if you make it a personality thing that's all about Cramer, then it's not all about the larger media.
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But again, not sure what mean-regression would mean in this instance, so that's just a guess. -
18
So we should "talk among ourselves about who "won" the interview"? What? It was pretty clear who won the interview (hint - it wasn't the bald guy with the cracking voice who kept apologizing).
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And this is a great one too: "The answer seems pretty plain if you watch the channel: it's for the traders. Period. It's not just that CNBC doesn't serve average, buy-and-hold investors."
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Again - what? I guess all the calls from regular folks who ask Cramer how to invest money ("Booya Jim, here's a stock - should I pull the trigger? "it's a BUY BUY BUY!!!" *wacky sound effect*) were faked - clearly Cramer's show is only aimed at investors. I must have imagined all those people calling for advice.
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These sorts of posts really make me glad that hopefully at some point Time will go under like the rest of printed media, and if not then maybe get reduced to filling all of its pages with garbage like "Why Faith Heals?" or printing endless sponsored "amazing technology" "articles" or maybe putting more fake mirrors on covers to further discredit its "Person of the Year" tradition.
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Keep at it, guys - Stewart's doing better than you so far. And he isn't even a journalist. -
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m00808: totally agree with your general assessment (haven't seen the clip). I'm a fan of the Daily Show (unfortunately, cut off from it due to bad internet), but Jon Stewart is frequently reduced to populist attacks that really are unjustified to anyone who knows the facts. Every time he's had a substantial guest on Iraq, he's bailed out with the humor schtick when they bring up a reasonable point.
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Still, I do like the Daily Show once in a while. -
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The audience is indeed day traders. But a synonym for day trader is "sucker" and all the CNBC participants know this. They are the casino's hot babes who sidle up to players at the roulette wheel to keep them playing. The raisson d' etre of the program is inherently wrong, because it fosters the illusion that you can win at this game. As Cramer makes clear, against his will, the game is rigged against the viewers trading at their computers at home, and he has done his share of the rigging.
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I don't watch the station (I don't trade), but I used to read Cramer's column in the NY Observer. He made it very clear that there was much shadiness going on. This is not a surprise. It's one reason why it's stupid to trade--once the information gets out of the concentric circles of insider,Street trader, analyst, broker the price has moved significantly. The other major reason that it's a sucker's bet is transaction costs, low as they have become, still eat up your profits. -
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yoshia
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What would you consider a "reasonable point" on Iraq? -
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to m0008:
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"Those who have a clue realize that Stewart was way out of his depth and is lucky that Cramer was too polite to set him straight regarding his amazing ignorance."
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This is a grade-school level argument. It's like a child saying "hey guys, I can fly and breathe fire!" and when other kids tell him to prove it, he says he doesn't feel like it. Cramer didn't hold back out of politeness or whatever other magical quality you may ascribe to him, he simply didn't have a whole lot to say. I think he went to the show with the intent to just sit there and agree with Stewart, to do a mea culpa and then return to the safety of his show with the knowledge that he safely defused the incident.
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Instead, he was treated to a few clips (never meant to be aired on national TV, I'm sure) that showed him as what he really is - a ruthless trader who doesn't consider things like spreading rumors about iPhone's viability to be bad practice. And he didn't have a whole lot to say. He shut down completely, not a solid answer to any of Stewart's questions, just apologies and promises to do better.
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My point here is that when you say Cramer can fly and breathe fire, he better step up and prove it. Saying "he didn't feel like it" is an excuse good enough only for children and feeble-minded. -
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Look at the typical "reporting" that goes on: "The White House said x. House republicans said y" and that's it. Who's right? No one in the press actually figures it out.
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Isn't that supposed to be what the press is supposed to do? Report the facts and don't let opinion, bias, or emotion get in the way??
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Dave:
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No, it's not.
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There's a difference between "reporting" and "stenography". Simply reporting that "Galileo put forward the notion that the earth revolves around the sun, whilst court officials disagreed, citing well established precedents for continued acceptance of the earth's centrality in the universe." leaves the reader with a highly distorted impression of that information --even without "opinion, bias, or emotion" there to "get in the way". -
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Awhile ago on the show (before McCain had won the primary), him and Jon were on what must have been their 6th sitdown (don't know for sure), and Iraq came up. Because Stewart brought it up. So he asked McCain what the whole rationale for going into Iraq was. McCain launches into a full-fledged statement about how Saddam was shuffling his feet with the WMDs before the war, how just about every Western intel agency thought the UN resolutions were being violated, etc...
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In response, Stewart laughs it off and changes the subject. I get that it's easier to make fun of soft targets than engage in conversation. But Stewart is short of a bona fide journalist because he runs away from stuff like that from time to time.
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I don't remember any moments about the surge so clearly, but I do pretty much know that because it suited his purposes, Stewart always sniped at Petraus without acknowledging any progress. -
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Jane reminds us who Cramer really is:
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Anyone not familiar with what happened when the curtain was pulled back from WaMu and their lending practices can catch up here, but CEO Kerry Killinger pulled down $88 million from 2001 to 2007 by churning out loans to the riskiest borrowers with high fees attached. The money quickly went out the door to the bank's executives. Employees described it as a "sweatshop": "garbage in, garbage out."
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At the time, Cuomo had filed a lawsuit against real estate apraisal firm First American, claiming they had inflated their real estate appraisals due to pressure from Washington Mutual. He had emails to prove it. WaMu's stock prices tumbled. This led Cramer to rail against Cuomo for being a "communist:"
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“[W]itness the fact that right now, the most important man in America for the stock market – the most important man and I mean it negatively is this guy Andrew Cuomo, the New York State Attorney General,” Cramer said. “I'm getting tired of the New York State Attorney General being the most important man in America.”
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Cramer compared Cuomo to his politicized predecessor Eliot Spitzer. “Cuomo's about confiscation – genuine communist,” Cramer said. “The Chinese are capitalists, we got a communist.”
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Andrew Cuomo did not mislead Jim Cramer. He didn't lie to him. Cramer had no interest in the facts--he was trying to use a very high profile forum to intimidate Cuomo, and keep him from looking into Washington Mutual. He didn't "try hard," and his crime wasn't a belief that the market would continue to go up--he acted like a thug to actively discourage any investigation that could threaten the perpetuation of a huge ponzi scheme.
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Cramer certainly wasn't the only one. But his defense, such as it is, attempts to obscure the fact that, like Marty Peretz, he believed his objective was sacrosanct, which justified its advancement by any means.
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Let us all not forget that no matter how sorry we may feel for Cramer he was an active participant in not reporting facts.
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http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/13/sorry-jim-cramer-you-didnt-try/#more-38003
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