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	<title>Comments on: HBO&#039;s Next (I Hope) Great Drama</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/</link>
	<description>A blog about television by TIME’s TV critic James Poniewozik.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:42:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: HBO to Begin Shooting Game of Thrones - Tuned In - TIME.com</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-26589</link>
		<dc:creator>HBO to Begin Shooting Game of Thrones - Tuned In - TIME.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-26589</guid>
		<description>[...] contributed a little to that premature buzz myself, I&#039;ll point you to my original argument why HBO needs to make this series. I&#039;ve since read all four of the novels in print so far now, and I&#039;m only more convinced. (Not that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] contributed a little to that premature buzz myself, I&#39;ll point you to my original argument why HBO needs to make this series. I&#39;ve since read all four of the novels in print so far now, and I&#39;m only more convinced. (Not that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Royal HBO role filled by &#8216;Terminator: Sarah Connor&#8217; actress &#171;YuvaBlog.in</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-25057</link>
		<dc:creator>Royal HBO role filled by &#8216;Terminator: Sarah Connor&#8217; actress &#171;YuvaBlog.in</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-25057</guid>
		<description>[...] Time&#039;s James Poniewozik has written, &quot;Thrones&quot; is the kind of complicated, richly appointed, adult drama that HBO [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Time&#39;s James Poniewozik has written, &quot;Thrones&quot; is the kind of complicated, richly appointed, adult drama that HBO [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vixenward</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24558</link>
		<dc:creator>vixenward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24558</guid>
		<description>They better not mess it up, for it will be jet another shatterd universe, and a magnificent one... I don&#039;t like the idea, and probably will not watch the series. I like the world in my head much more, and television is no match for it. At least it will get more people interested into G.R.R.Martins books. The news is a disappointment to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They better not mess it up, for it will be jet another shatterd universe, and a magnificent one... I don't like the idea, and probably will not watch the series. I like the world in my head much more, and television is no match for it. At least it will get more people interested into G.R.R.Martins books. The news is a disappointment to me.</p>
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		<title>By: nublican</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24501</link>
		<dc:creator>nublican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24501</guid>
		<description>Looking at Game of Thrones, there&#039;s one story in particular that could ace the first season and make for a spectacular inaugural. 
The retelling of the ancient battle, The Field of Fire.
Told in flashback by the character Tyrion Lannister, it is a vista of huge armies clashing on the battlefield and three giant dragons simultaneously unleashed to incinerate enemy troops by the thousands.
Well handled CGI could make for something truly spectacular, just as long as the live action component isn&#039;t assembled too much on the cheap.  
Technically it&#039;s a minor scene that could be done entirely as a long slow zoom into Tyrion&#039;s face as he tells the tale, but if it were actually put on the screen it would provide something visually extraordinary from the first book.
Now THAT I&#039;d like to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at Game of Thrones, there's one story in particular that could ace the first season and make for a spectacular inaugural.<br />
The retelling of the ancient battle, The Field of Fire.<br />
Told in flashback by the character Tyrion Lannister, it is a vista of huge armies clashing on the battlefield and three giant dragons simultaneously unleashed to incinerate enemy troops by the thousands.<br />
Well handled CGI could make for something truly spectacular, just as long as the live action component isn't assembled too much on the cheap.<br />
Technically it's a minor scene that could be done entirely as a long slow zoom into Tyrion's face as he tells the tale, but if it were actually put on the screen it would provide something visually extraordinary from the first book.<br />
Now THAT I'd like to see.</p>
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		<title>By: peeekz</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24462</link>
		<dc:creator>peeekz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24462</guid>
		<description>Just read GRRM&#039;s blog about casting, they seem to be doing a fine job, but I have to say I have my fingers crossed for Clancy Brown to play The Hound.  He&#039;s big, he has a deep voice, he can pull off a huge guy with a sword (i.e. the villain in the other-wise ridiculous Highlander movie), and his eyes...he was who I pictured when reading anything in the books about The Hound.  As a fan, I&#039;m definitely frothing at the mouth, and this show might finally get me to pick up HBO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read GRRM's blog about casting, they seem to be doing a fine job, but I have to say I have my fingers crossed for Clancy Brown to play The Hound.  He's big, he has a deep voice, he can pull off a huge guy with a sword (i.e. the villain in the other-wise ridiculous Highlander movie), and his eyes...he was who I pictured when reading anything in the books about The Hound.  As a fan, I'm definitely frothing at the mouth, and this show might finally get me to pick up HBO.</p>
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		<title>By: indigomoon59</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24453</link>
		<dc:creator>indigomoon59</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24453</guid>
		<description>/grin.  YAY.  
GRRM reader for years!  This is fantastic news!  As are most of his fans, I am eagerly awaiting the next installment of the Fire &amp; Ice books... having a HBO series to look forward to is even better.  I&#039;ll leave all the 
casting and logistical challenges to the professionals... just know there are many who will enjoy this series whether they&#039;ve read the books or not... and for those of you reading the comments who&#039;ve not read the books... skedaddle hop yer arse on over to the bookstore or library... quick!  Grats George!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/grin.  YAY.<br />
GRRM reader for years!  This is fantastic news!  As are most of his fans, I am eagerly awaiting the next installment of the Fire &amp; Ice books... having a HBO series to look forward to is even better.  I'll leave all the<br />
casting and logistical challenges to the professionals... just know there are many who will enjoy this series whether they've read the books or not... and for those of you reading the comments who've not read the books... skedaddle hop yer arse on over to the bookstore or library... quick!  Grats George!</p>
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		<title>By: summerdaze42</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24400</link>
		<dc:creator>summerdaze42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24400</guid>
		<description>Yes please! The books are among my absolute faves (and the few that I have from the fantasy genre) and definitely lend themselves toward a film interpretation.

Regarding the worries about the depiction of female characters: as a woman myself, I think -- as mentioned above -- Martin&#039;s development of characters such as Catelyn and Sansa are accurate. In such a society, women would have to maneuver more behind the scenes and in less obvious ways than men. And anyway, there are no dearth of strong female characters -- Arya, Catelyn, Danerys, Melisandre. In fact the women are often the ones driving the action, even if they are not out in the field themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes please! The books are among my absolute faves (and the few that I have from the fantasy genre) and definitely lend themselves toward a film interpretation.</p>
<p>Regarding the worries about the depiction of female characters: as a woman myself, I think -- as mentioned above -- Martin's development of characters such as Catelyn and Sansa are accurate. In such a society, women would have to maneuver more behind the scenes and in less obvious ways than men. And anyway, there are no dearth of strong female characters -- Arya, Catelyn, Danerys, Melisandre. In fact the women are often the ones driving the action, even if they are not out in the field themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: repzak</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24382</link>
		<dc:creator>repzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24382</guid>
		<description>I am actually in the (very small) minority of people who absolutely hated the books. And I LOVE almost all books and Fantasy and SciFi in particular. It should be right up my tastes, but despite this it turned out to be only the second book/series I&#039;ve ever started and simply not finished because I thought it sucked so hard I can&#039;t describe it once I got to book 3.

Now that I&#039;ve read about Martin&#039;s background in TV writing I have a sneaking suspicion that&#039;s exactly why I didn&#039;t like it.

But for what it&#039;s worth I do think it&#039;s an obvious TV series - and it could be done amazingly on TV. I&#039;d definitely give it a view, and I did like the first book anyway - that&#039;s before it went downhill for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am actually in the (very small) minority of people who absolutely hated the books. And I LOVE almost all books and Fantasy and SciFi in particular. It should be right up my tastes, but despite this it turned out to be only the second book/series I've ever started and simply not finished because I thought it sucked so hard I can't describe it once I got to book 3.</p>
<p>Now that I've read about Martin's background in TV writing I have a sneaking suspicion that's exactly why I didn't like it.</p>
<p>But for what it's worth I do think it's an obvious TV series - and it could be done amazingly on TV. I'd definitely give it a view, and I did like the first book anyway - that's before it went downhill for me.</p>
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		<title>By: egowumpus</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24351</link>
		<dc:creator>egowumpus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24351</guid>
		<description>@dweebazoid; I think that the sexism critiques are overblown, even on the examples that you provide - the more &#039;solid&#039; case of sexism, if you will.

The _two_ lesbian sex scenes are not, to my mind, sufficient to support a claim that they were inserted for titillation only. They are both very tame. They are also well balanced with incestuous sex, incestuous sexual interaction, bisexuality and male homosexuality, amongst other even less savory but arguablly &#039;titillating&#039; sexual scenes. It is hard to deny sex is part of the human condition, and it would be harder still to accept the world as realistic if female-female sexuality didn&#039;t exist anywhere.

I&#039;m not sure exactly how it is that female characters are supposedly portrayed as more beautiful than male characters. Is it that there are insufficient numbers of female characters who are described as plain or ugly? Because to that, off the top of my head, amongst the more major characters, you have Arya, Brienne, Ygritte and Lysa - and that&#039;s discounting the minor characters such as Lolys, Shireen and uncountable Freys. Or is it that there are not sufficient male characters described as attractive? Because again, you have Loras, Renly, Beric (at least to start...), Oberyn and, perhaps the most blatant example, Jaime. Even Joffrey is often described as beautiful, though that is generously salted with his inner hideousness.

As to marginalization of adult females, I think there is also ample evidence to the contrary. Catelyn, Cersei, Lysa, Melisandre, Brienne and the Queen of Thornes all play pivotal and powerful roles. While these characters will alternately be portrayed (often dependent entirely on who is narrating) as simpering, craven, maniacal, idiotic or downright evil, they aren&#039;t marginalized by the narrative itself, only by the world described by the narrative. In fact much of their narrative arcs describe their personal battles against that marginalization - which is the essence of doing anything but marginalizing their characters to the reader. There are also countless smaller-role female characters that all have pretty profound effects; Septa Mordane, nearly any female from Asshai, the lady Mormonts, the Sand Snakes, and so on.

Finally, there is the charge of lack of female to female interaction, &#039;especially non-titillating [examples]&#039;. I will concur that there are fewer female-female interactions in general, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s out of proportion to the overall described population. There are many more male characters in the story - helpful, actually, given their higher mortality. Further, the interactions between females are rarely titillating. The sister-sister interactions are pretty awesome; Lysa and Catelyn (though indirect/in the past), and Sansa and Arya for example. But there are also great interactions between the Queen of Thornes, Margaery and Sansa, between Daenerys and the Maegi, between Cersei and Sansa, between Lysa and Sansa, Catelyn and Jeyne Westerling, Brienne and Catelyn, etc. I do not think that, as a whole, the series lacks for powerful female interactions. 

If anything, I think these examples speak directly to your point; the female characters are subtly described. On the whole, they are no less successful than their male counterparts (can you name a male character who achieves their goals for more than a few moments?)  - and arguably more successful. I think it is hard to support the claim that Martin is harder on them than on the male characters; they rise and fall just like the rest; just like the rest they are usually solitary islands in a sea of opponents. I think this is a strength of Martin&#039;s writing, not a weakness, that the women are treated the same by the author, if not by the world narrated.

For that reason, I think that the charges of sexism are overblown - and perhaps more a measure of the sexism of the readership than of the author, as you say. Even the best counterexamples of this are weak at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@dweebazoid; I think that the sexism critiques are overblown, even on the examples that you provide - the more 'solid' case of sexism, if you will.</p>
<p>The _two_ lesbian sex scenes are not, to my mind, sufficient to support a claim that they were inserted for titillation only. They are both very tame. They are also well balanced with incestuous sex, incestuous sexual interaction, bisexuality and male homosexuality, amongst other even less savory but arguablly 'titillating' sexual scenes. It is hard to deny sex is part of the human condition, and it would be harder still to accept the world as realistic if female-female sexuality didn't exist anywhere.</p>
<p>I'm not sure exactly how it is that female characters are supposedly portrayed as more beautiful than male characters. Is it that there are insufficient numbers of female characters who are described as plain or ugly? Because to that, off the top of my head, amongst the more major characters, you have Arya, Brienne, Ygritte and Lysa - and that's discounting the minor characters such as Lolys, Shireen and uncountable Freys. Or is it that there are not sufficient male characters described as attractive? Because again, you have Loras, Renly, Beric (at least to start...), Oberyn and, perhaps the most blatant example, Jaime. Even Joffrey is often described as beautiful, though that is generously salted with his inner hideousness.</p>
<p>As to marginalization of adult females, I think there is also ample evidence to the contrary. Catelyn, Cersei, Lysa, Melisandre, Brienne and the Queen of Thornes all play pivotal and powerful roles. While these characters will alternately be portrayed (often dependent entirely on who is narrating) as simpering, craven, maniacal, idiotic or downright evil, they aren't marginalized by the narrative itself, only by the world described by the narrative. In fact much of their narrative arcs describe their personal battles against that marginalization - which is the essence of doing anything but marginalizing their characters to the reader. There are also countless smaller-role female characters that all have pretty profound effects; Septa Mordane, nearly any female from Asshai, the lady Mormonts, the Sand Snakes, and so on.</p>
<p>Finally, there is the charge of lack of female to female interaction, 'especially non-titillating [examples]'. I will concur that there are fewer female-female interactions in general, but I don't think it's out of proportion to the overall described population. There are many more male characters in the story - helpful, actually, given their higher mortality. Further, the interactions between females are rarely titillating. The sister-sister interactions are pretty awesome; Lysa and Catelyn (though indirect/in the past), and Sansa and Arya for example. But there are also great interactions between the Queen of Thornes, Margaery and Sansa, between Daenerys and the Maegi, between Cersei and Sansa, between Lysa and Sansa, Catelyn and Jeyne Westerling, Brienne and Catelyn, etc. I do not think that, as a whole, the series lacks for powerful female interactions. </p>
<p>If anything, I think these examples speak directly to your point; the female characters are subtly described. On the whole, they are no less successful than their male counterparts (can you name a male character who achieves their goals for more than a few moments?)  - and arguably more successful. I think it is hard to support the claim that Martin is harder on them than on the male characters; they rise and fall just like the rest; just like the rest they are usually solitary islands in a sea of opponents. I think this is a strength of Martin's writing, not a weakness, that the women are treated the same by the author, if not by the world narrated.</p>
<p>For that reason, I think that the charges of sexism are overblown - and perhaps more a measure of the sexism of the readership than of the author, as you say. Even the best counterexamples of this are weak at best.</p>
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		<title>By: erikiwi</title>
		<link>http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07/06/hbos-next-i-hope-great-drama/comment-page-2/#comment-24350</link>
		<dc:creator>erikiwi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/?p=5346#comment-24350</guid>
		<description>also, i read that someone makes a reference to battlestar galactica and i cant agree more. BG and ASOIAF both stand out uniquely in their genre. and if BG could draw a mainstream audience, ASOIAF certainly could aswell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, i read that someone makes a reference to battlestar galactica and i cant agree more. BG and ASOIAF both stand out uniquely in their genre. and if BG could draw a mainstream audience, ASOIAF certainly could aswell.</p>
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