Dave & Conan: Who's #1? Depends Who Counts
As Bill Carter reports at the New York Times, one side effect of Michael Jackson's death has been a big jump in Nightline's ratings, which seemed to come largely from Conan O'Brien. The night of Jackson's memorial, The Tonight Show got about two million fewer viewers than Nightline, and a million less than Late Show With David Letterman.
This may have been a breaking-news anomaly, but late-night has seemed to have settled into a pattern: Conan has shed overall viewers, with Dave beating him many nights. But Conan has gotten many more viewers in the more-lucrative 18-to-49 demographic—his average viewer age dropped nearly a decade from Leno's—making his show more potentially lucrative. Some nights, both networks can claim the number-one show on some measures.
There's a bigger issue here: what constitutes "winning" in TV? And do some viewers matter more than others?
The fact that advertisers pay more for 18-to-49 audiences irritates a lot of people. Say, those who are not 18-to-49. It is not fair; many people in TV (and even some in advertising) think it is no longer wise. It is based in a number of factors and beliefs: one, that older people watch more TV (and thus can be reached on cheaper shows, so there's no premium for delivering them), and another, the theory that younger people are less brand-loyal.
All debatable, but it still is what it is. (Ages ago, I wrote a primer column on why advertisers chase young people, and it largely still holds true.) And as audiences become smaller, and fragmentation and other media make younger people even more ad-elusive, in a way the pressures are even greater.
It may sound cynical, but I think NBC's justified enough to claim a "win" by dominating the category that yields the most money. Look, TV is a business. The aim therein is not to get the most viewers as an end in itself. It is to make the greatest profit. Maybe you do that by getting the most viewers (like American Idol). Maybe you do it by getting the most remunerative audience (like The Office). Maybe you do it by cutting costs (as NBC plans with Jay at 10 p.m.).
There's no extra moral prize for reaching the greatest mass of people. If NBC and CBS are both competing to wring the most greenbacks out of the slot, whichever one succeeds at that wins. If advertisers some day start paying more for older viewers, then guess what? The game will change.
But when those of us not in the TV biz—critics, or anyone else—call someone "number one," it does seem to confer a value judgment, to say that they won what was worth winning. So who do we call number one in late night, if Dave gets the most fans and Conan the choicest ones?
For me, if forced, I'd say Dave; the networks' yardstick does not have to be mine, and simplest to say that the guy who gets the most eyeballs has the greatest reach and influence.
But it also shows how silly declaring "number one" at all is. That's NBC and CBS's war, not mine. I like Dave; I like Conan. Right now I somewhat prefer to watch Conan, but I'd gladly switch between the two. It may be that we will for some time have two network-proclaimed kings of late night. I guess mine will be whoever I'm watching at the time.
Which will likely be Stephen Colbert.
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JP: I posted this in the "Morning After" thread, but you should really watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYyy1VUFav0&feature=player_embedded
Yes, that is Craig Ferguson. Yes, those are puppets. Yes he is lip-synching to Duran Duran's cover of Grandmaster Flash's "White Lines."
And yes, that is the funniest thing you will see all day.
Honestly, while much of America was quite literally sleeping, Craig Ferguson somehow became the rightful heir to Johnny Carson's throne as King of Late Night. No one, and I mean NO ONE does interviews, monologues, and flat out bizarre (I repeat: lip-synching with puppets to "White Lines"!) with as much excellence as Craig Ferguson.
Dave, meanwhile, is starting to look bored -- his interview last night with Emma Watson being an example. She was amazingly charming and funny, while he seemed to be sleepwalking through a script that a producer drew up of things to ask her.
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@ Chaddog. Second (or is it Third or Fourth by now) on Craig. Hands down the most consistently good host on TV. His opening monologue hits the highest of comedic heights and the most sobering of emotional depths. NO comic has the range of Craig.
Also, Craig's accent works in his favor. Same way that Groundskeeper Willy was about 20% more funny with a Scottish accent, than say if he had a Southern accent instead.
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I always watch Stewart and Colbert and switch between Letterman and Conan throughout both shows. It really depends on who they have on for me. Either way, I love watching Jimmy Fallon whenever I stay up late enough.
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I concur with Chaddogg, Craig Ferguson is the best late night host in all of this great land. Dave doesn't make me laugh very much anymore. Emma Watson carried that interview last night and made it successful. Conan and Craig are my favorites, so it was a great day for me (and America) when Conan moved timeslots. I like the Daily Show and Colbert as well, but I find them more inconsistent night to night.
My favorite Craig puppet dance opening is to Fatboy Slim's Wonderful Night. Grab your belt buckle and dance!
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I totally need to figure out how to embed video...
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This was great!! Thanks for sharing it. I laughed and it made my day, or night, whatever! I have liked him (Craig)a lot as well over the years, Dave seems same-old and Conan sometimes tries too hard and falls flat, but I guess they all have their moments. Vote for Craig here on Tuned In!!!
Vote
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Can't we give both Dave and Conan a trophy for participating? If we declare a winner, one of them will have their feelings hurt.....
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I feel that it's all about TARGET MARKET. I can see how some people can get offended by the notion that people between 18-49 mean more to advertisers than others. But it makes sense in the sense that younger people are the future, are more willing to try new products, and are more likely to be influenced (fooled) by the actual ADVERTISEMENTS.
So much of the advertising on NBC and ABC are devoted to telecommunication products. Seriously, the best thing about having a DVR is not having to sit through more Blackberry and iPhone commercials. But those commercials do a good job at making Gen Xers and Gen Yers feeling left out if they aren't keeping up with the newest technology. The problem is that there are a good number of people 50 and over that are interested in those products, just not as many. Therefore programs that feature ads for blockbuster films, cell phones/PDAs and other innovative items are going to want the younger people to be watching.
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@James
Speaking of the iPhone. You said you were reading ASOIAF on the Kindle. That seems like it would bother my eyes after a while. I would imagine that reading on old fashioned paper would be more relaxing and enjoyable. For me, one of the best parts about reading books is getting away from modern technology.-
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I thought I wouldn't like it either. But I'm used to reading on the iPhone now (I use the Kindle for iPhone app) and I found myself getting really absorbed in the book that way. And it's always there--I probably read it much faster stealing breaks here and there to read. Not to mention those GRRM books are doorstops, so I didn't have to lug one around.
I don't know if I'd read everything on it, but so far it works for me.
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Hah, both get their Tee-ball trophies for playing, I like it. You know the beauty of the remote /DVR/ Youtube allows viewers to watch both, wonder when the networks will finally realize that.
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Craig Ferguson is the king of late night. He should be moved up to an earlier time slot. He is a lot more refreshing then the other two.
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[...] is just a quick one. It’s good to see I’m not the only one that watches Conan and Craig Ferguson rather than stick with one [...]
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For years we were fed on a diet of Conan and Leno in South Africa. No other US talk shows. Conan is funny, Leno is funnier.
A few months ago Letterman arrived. Inane, unfunny, infantile. I am embarassed when his bandleader tries to be funny. Come on! Letterman witty!? Funny!?
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Letterman has seemed bored for a long time now. As for Ferguson, I agree he's great, but he could never be moved up, he's much more out there and niche than Conan ever was.
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Letterman is a class act. His tenure should never be ignored. I don't enjoy Conan's show. He's just not that funny in my opinion and forget about Fallon. The funniest of them all is Craig Ferguson! Ferguson has a unique style all his own. He looks comfortable doing it as well. He's just crazy but yet seems very inteligent and honest with his humor! He would be perfect for the early slot when Letterman retires in a few years. Watch Ferguson's show for a week and you'll be hooked! Now that's the "King of Late Night"!
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[...] Dave & Conan: Who’s #1? Depends Who Counts As Bill Carter reports at the New York Times, one side effect of Michael Jackson’s death has been a big jump in [...] [...]
- poniewozik Loved the season. Mrs Tuned In wd have put u on the main list RT @boredtodeath Thank u for incl us in Time's Top 10. We'll take hon mention. - 6 hours ago
- poniewozik @carr2n Virgin is the best, LAX-JFK - 7 hours ago
- poniewozik Did NPR interview abt multiscreen multitasking. After, automatically reached for iPhone in pocket. Like don draper wd have for cigarettes. - 8 hours ago
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